Can I use this T-18?

Yes, that and the retainer and a new bearing. The Ford retainer is modified per the Novak instructions above, if it's for a GM bell.

And the retainer, properly machined. If you read the whole thread and its links carefully, you may understand better.

Nick says that there are two styles of Ford 2WD T-18s - thick and thin synchro. This could be either the length or the diameter (ie radial thickness) of the synchro - I don't know which. However, if you compare the Jeep and Ford T-18 input shaft synchros, and they are the same, I'd think they would work. Maybe Nick will comment further.

 

Hmm, how can they do that? I thought the stickout for the Ford input shaft is already the right length for the GM Bellhousings. $250 for a plate seems pretty high, unless they include other parts.

Well, I looked at the AA catalog, and it is indeed a plate. There must be enough fore-aft play at the pilot bushing to accomodate the 1/2" thickness of the adapter. Jayhawkclint, this sounds like something your machinist could do easily if he had the parts in front of him. However, it may be just as effective to drill the GM bellhousing to accomodate the Jeep pattern.

 

When I installed mine, I had to cut the splines back. I can't remember how far. The simple thing to do is place the bearing on the input, index the bearing retainer in the bellhousing(which is on the engine, Put the input into the retainer and mesure the difference between the snap ring and the land in the retainer. On that note, I also turned down the input shaft to take the stock GM bushing. This eleminates the need to order specialty parts. I belive the whole job cost about $20. The trans adapted to the stock short bellhousing in almost the identical way as described above. I also used the ford casing. Adapting the stock transfercase adapter was easy. Align the adapter using the bearing and drill/tap the mount holes. Looking back, I think the hardest thing was fabing the floor cover.

 

I should've been more specific when I said thick and thin synchro, sorry . What I meant is the inside diameter is usually smaller on the Jeep Waggie and PU T-18's. Many Ford T-18's used a larger inside diameter Synchro. The "thickness" of the synchro between the id and od is what I was referring to with thick and thin synchro's. The outside diameter and thickness when measured in cross section is the same between the two. Sorry for any confusion. R&P sells a modified Ford case to bolt directly to a GM bellhousing with NO adapter plate. They can also drill the Ford case to accept the stock adapter for you. Edit, they get $125 for a case not $175 like I thought. That's certainly cheaper than AA's kit and gives the shortest length possible.
Timgr, if AA is doing the plate like they did the ones for a T-176/T-150 adaption then they supply an "extended" pilot bushing, meaning one that is deeper in depth to engage the pilot. In other words it sticks out from the crank shaft towards the tranny to engage the pilot.

Again, R&P can supply you with all the parts needed as I'm sure PartsMike can.
Nickmil.

Edit: Just talked to Paul. He gets $125 for a modified case, $50 for a machined bearing retainer, and $20 for the modified pilot bushing. So for $195 you get everything to bolt to a GM bellhousing except the Ford input. Nickmil

 

So, now that I've pretty much made my mind up to have the input shaft cut and resplined, what if I just had it made to fit the GM clutch directly, instead of cutting the Ford-pattern splines back? I could just use an OEM S-10 clutch assembly, right? Then I could just pull a GM 4.3 TBI manual donor and bolt it right in. Anyone see a problem with this?

 

Hmm. I don't see why not, if the shaft diameter matches the GM disk. With the Ford shaft, you'd only use a Ford disk, with a GM cover and t/o bearing. You'll still need to modify the retainer for use with the GM t/o bearing, and to fit in the GM bell.

 

I got my template input shaft from a T-14 tonight (Thanks McBob) to use for cutting and respline of my project T-18 tranny. I compare the two and find that they both share a 1-1/8 diameter, 10 spline shaft. The pilot bearing looks to be smaller diamter on the T-14. The bearing retainer and shaft are also shorter on the T-14. All that seems fine, though because my ridiculously long input on the J-truck T-18 gives the machinist plenty of material to cut down. I plan on not doing any cutting until I get the drivetrain pulled and get some actual measurements, but at this point I am a little concerned that I am over-simplifying the problem. Specifically, Novak clearly says that many people have tried making this trans work over the years, and that there is no easy/cost effective solution. My machinist tells me that this is a really easy project, and that he can get the front side to mate up for $100 and be able to use all my stock V6 clutch parts. The trans came with a D20 adapter, so I'm potentially looking at just over $150 into the whole project. Am I missing something? Good deals like this generally just don't happen for me, so I'm starting to get concerned.

 

I have been thinking of doing a similar project with a Scout T18. I'm no drivetrain expert, but I would think a transmission input shaft would be case hardened. That means the shaft will be hard to a depth of .010 to .020 on the outside but the middle of the shaft is soft. That way the bearing surfaces and the splines will not wear down but the shaft will not be brittle as it would if it were hardened all the way through. If you shorten and re-spline then the case hardness will be gone and the shaft may wear real fast in those areas. This is purely speculation on my part, I have not checked the hardness of the outside vs. the middle of an input shaft yet to see for sure if this is the case. Maybe someone here knows for sure?

 

I've wondered about that, how hard should it be hardened after the machine work? Anyone had this done?

 

I'm gonna take a pot shot guess knowing what I harden stuff to at work. I would say it is not case hardened but induction hardened and done to a depth of about .050" maybe more, probably to around 52-54 rc. The hardening will cost at least $75-$100 unless the machinist has alot of stuff heat treated on a regular basis. He definately will not be able to harden it himself with any guarantee of hardness or precision unless he has a soak tank and a good atmospheric oven or an induction heat treat machine. Don't let him harden it with a torch and quench it in oil it would be a total waste. To be honest resplining is possible but it would be better to spend the money and buy the right shaft unless this guy has done this stuff before and knows what to do for an automotive application. My .02!!

 

He seems to carry quite a bit of confidence about it. Claims he has done this a number of times on big trucks (dump trucks), and also for his son's CJ project at one time.

I guess I am more or less worried that I am missing something obvious versus what way "should" it be done. I've got the t-case adapter, got a trans mount, two t-cases for gears and whatnot, got an idea for the bell housing, and am thinking I'm going to give this cut/respline a try. What else goes into this swap that I am not thinking of?

 

I agree with McRuff on this one. The other thing is if you have a problem down the road, say the input gear portion gets worn or the inside of the gear where the pocket bearings ride gets worn, then what you gonna do? You then have to go through that all over again. Why not use off the shelf parts so you know in the future parts are available? I recently went through this with a customer's tranny he brought in that had a bad main drive gear (as well as lots of other parts) and it was a custom part. Cost a LOT of money unnecessarily. Nickmil

 

Howdy, after reading all these posts on this transmission I think you will be second guessing this thing the whole time it is in your Jeep. So, let me offer you this, I will buy the whole thing for $150.00 plus shipping to Texas and you will make a cool $100.00 profit to apply to some new parts that you won't have to worry about.

 

Thanks for inputs. I hadn't really thought the hardening all the way through. I'll keep that in mind.

Another question I have is about the clutch. I have read that I will need to get a Ford clutch if I use the 2wd input shaft. The thing is, when I compared the splines, I count the same 10 spline, 1-1/8" diameter shaft on the T-14 as on the T-18. Wouldn't this mean that the hub on the Buick clutch is the same as the Ford clutch? If so, I would just need to come up with a custom bushing, right?

EDIT - Sorry. After looking again, I think the Jeep input shaft is slightly different size than the Ford shaft, although they both have the 10 spline pattern.

 

Hello Again,

The Ford input shaft is Ten spline and 1.057" and the T14 input shaft is Ten spline and 1.327".

 

Thanks. I noticed that after I posted.

Thanks for the offer, but I'm going to make a go out of this one. If nothing more than the quest for knowledge, I'd just like to experiment a little and see what I can do with this thing. If it blows up, then I'm out $150 and have to put my T-14 back in or spring for a real shaft. Tinkering is part of the fun for me, and I'm certainly not putting all my eggs in one basket on this trans, so I'll just take some notes about what I learn and post here as I stumble about on this project. If all else fails, there is a cheap NP435 sitting 2 blocks down the street from me.