Can I use this T-18?

I know there's been a lot of T-18 questions this week. Sorry if some of this overlaps those threads.

I found this T-18 at a garage sale today. $50. It is the granny low version. I spun it by hand in his driveway and counted roughly 6:1 in low. Novak says 6.32. Figured for the price, it was worth taking a chance on dragging home. Judging by the pile of other parts laying around the yard, this probably came out of a '79-ish J-10 with AMC 360 and D20 T-case. Here are my questions:

1) It's got a stupidly long input shaft. Novak sells a shaft, but I'm wondering if a machinist could just cut and re-spline. Is this common or doable?
2) The rear has has what appears to be a t-case input gear on it, probably from the D20 that was laying adjacent to this tranny, but the bolt pattern looks to me like some kind of adapter housing is necessary. I would want to go D18 behind this tranny, so would the Novak adapter kit replace the missing housing, or would that even be necessary given what I've heard about the interchangeability of the 18 and 20. I want to stay with an offset D44 rear.
3) I can't seem to find Jeep T-18 to GM bell housing adaptability on the Novak page. What differences are there?

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm

 

I know AA had a bellhousing for that application. They still should.

Very cool by the way, maybe I need to hit up some yardsales to try and get some stuff.

 

Probably have to get an adapter bellhousing from AA. A dana 18 behind the V6 should be a big hole case which will bolt on. You will probably need to find a new bull gear with the right gear count and 6 spline to fit on the transmission output. If your dana 18 was behind a v6 stock it will have 10 splines on the bull gear. If your dana 18 is a small hole like behind a 4 cylinder. You can either swap the gears and stuff over to a dana 20 case or I know some transmission you can get a differernt retainer to get it to work. Overall it is doable.

 

Here is the page you are looking for about the GM bellhousing to t18http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/ford_to_gm.htm
The adapter for the dana 20 should be the same as the dana 18, the bull gear on the rear can be changed!

 

Dude, if you got a T18 with the adapter to a Dana 20 transfer case for $50,you made out big time. An adapter from the T18 to the transfer case would have cost you over $450.00. I am using a AA bellhousing to go from my V6 to Ford T18 bolt pattern. Take your time looking for suff and you just mite get a T18 installed in your Jeep for way cheap. Getting the T18 with the Transfer case adapter is 90 percent of the install.

 

Thanks for the replies. Couple points of clarification:

It is not the Ford pattern, it is the Jeep pattern. The bellhousing bolt pattern is not symetrical. The pass side of the trans has two holes closer together near the top of the trans. The driver's side holes look just like the Ford pattern. The pass side does not have a blank ear where the Ford would have a hole. I am not so much concerned about the pattern. I think and adapter for that side of the case should be easier to figure out.

It is the output side that I am trying to figure out. I guess V-hunter answered my question; I didn't get a housing with the trans, so I need to go back and hunt through the guys pile 'o junk and figure out if he has one. If he does have one, it would most likely be T-18 to D20. Would this housing work with the D18, or will I need to buy an AA kit?

Also, can that front shaft be easily cut and re-splined for, say, a GM 4.3 V6 with shorter bell? Or should I start budgeting for the AA short shaft? I don't think I have enough wheelbase for an adapted long bellhousing.

 

Indeed, a score!

You have a couple of options.

One is to use the mainshaft and adapter from this transmission and install them in a Ford 2WD T-18. This will give you a Ford front pattern and the Texas pattern at the rear for your transfer case. I have not done this, but Nick says it can be done with a few holes drilled and plugging some existing holes. The Ford T-18 can be adapted using the Novak instructions above.

The other option is to buy/find the Ford input shaft, retainer and bearing(?) and install it in the Jeep transmission. PartsMike sells a kit to do this, or you could find a Ford 2WD T-18 and buy it complete or take the parts you need. Then you must adapt the Jeep case to the GM bell, roughly following the Novak instructions. The Ford pattern is only one bolt hole different from the Jeep pattern from what I understand.

Don't know about remachining the shaft, but I'd guess it's highly impractical since you can buy the shaft you need fro PartsMike new for about $100.

 

If there's a removable part on the back end of the transmission (looks to me like there is), then you got it all.

Looks like Texas to me!

 

Also

That's a FS Jeep V-8 input shaft. In the truck, there's a 5" spacer (some have a spacer, early ones has a bell with a long snout) that goes between the bell and the transmission. The long input shaft moves the shifter back to a more central place in the cabin (otherwise it would come out under the dash). That input shaft and the spacer are only useful in a V8 J-truck or Wagoneer installation.

 

Thanks for the reply, Tim. I see what you're saying now - "Texas pattern." I thought I was missing a housing, but after closer examination, that is exactly what is bolted on to the back of the trans. Even has a mount attached to it. I checked the D18 I want to use, and it looks like it will match up. I've got a bull gear for a T90, wonder if that would work. Just leaves the bell and input shaft to figure out.

Trying to make a deal with a guy to part out an S-10 together - I keep the TBI 4.3/ECM/bell, he keeps everything else. Once I get it, should know more about how I'm going to match up the input side.

 

There's a chart for bull gears: http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transfer_case_gears_grid.htm

Lots of good stuff on the Novak site. Here's the link that Mike posted again: http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/ford_to_gm.htm

If you install the Ford input shaft and retainer, then you can follow the Novak instructions with your existing V6 bellhousing. The Jeep case will have that one ear/hole that's different, and you'll have to figure that out. Pretty sure that someone here has done it though... I'm trying to recall his name. <edit> Plunkinberry?

Here's the PartsMike kit:
http://www.partsmikeparts.com/t18_input_kit.htm

Sorry, it's about twice the cost that I thought it was. At that price (or less!) you should be able to find a complete Ford 2WD T-18 and graft the Jeep and Ford transmissions together.

 

You might also call R&P at 503-557-8911. They modify Ford T-18 cases to bolt DIRECTLY to GM bellhousings with NO adapter. They can supply the Ford main drive gear, turned down front bearing retainer, pilot bushing, etc. to go to GM, Ford, or AMC motors. They normally have all this in stock as well as a very large selection of T-18 hard parts, new and used. When looking for a main drive gear look for one with the thick synchro, as that is what most J-trucks and wagoneers used as there are two options. The Ford main drive gear is the correct length to use with a GM bellhousing with no adapter but you will need a disc with the Ford spline. Just use a Ford disc with the right diameter to go with your GM clutch. The Ford Bearing retainer gets turned down and then you can use a stock GM throwout bearing. The ID of the pilot bushing needs to be machined out to fit the larger diameter of the Ford pilot. No big deal.
Nickmil

 

Okay, I think I've just about got this figured out. Looking for someone who's done a GM to T18 conversion, either Buick or Chevy. Need to know:

1) What is the stick-out length of the bearing retainer?
2) What is the O.D. of the bearing retainer?
3) What is the stick-out length of the input shaft?

 

I just bought a bearing retainer from Parts Mike, it is not that expensive. You have can have him make it for a GM throw out bearing and machine down the outside to match the hole in the GM bellhousing. So, you use everthing for a GM clutch except the clutch disk which will be Ford. My T18 is the short imput shaft that will work with the GM bellhousing. I would have to measure the lenght to tell you, but I think it would be just as easy to buy the correct imput shaft and the correct bearing retainer. Man, you are into this so cheap as it is! I used to live close to Parts Mike in California so I just got what I needed from him before I moved out to Texas. And, yes this setup will bolt up to a big hole dana 18 transfer case, since you have the Texas bolt pattern adapter on the back of that T18. You just have a couple of small items to get to put it in, and again at a cheap price. Oh, and the AA V6 bellhousing came with multiply holes drilled in it and I think you could bolt any T18 case to it.

 

I think I need to chime in here. Sorry for the delay I have been out of town. This is what I did very cheap. It sort of agrees with the previous post.
I used:

A jeep t-18 case.
ford 2wd guts. (this is where you need to get the input shaft)
Chevrolet bell housing.
Chevrolet clutch parts with ford disc. (Ford disc was slightly smaller than the chevy, but the splines fit.)
I made my bearing retainer, you should just buy one from novak.
Chevy throwout bearing and arm,
The top two bell housing holes were close enough to use.
I welded in a bunch of aluminum to make a place to drill and tap the bottom right hole into the bell housing just beside the chevy hole.
The bottom left hole was the weirdest. I sort of made a bracket that connected the bottom left tranny hole down to the bottom left chevy bell housing hole. I made the bracket (which was really not much more than some flat steel) also extend up and be connected to the top bolt for extra strength. Basically all three holes on the left side are bolted together. If you look at yours you will see what I mean.

Since you use the jeep tranny and transfer case you probably have all you need to connect them.
I also changed to a hydraulic clutch.

 

I am really trying to avoid a spacer. I've got a really crafty machinist here in town that thinks it wouldn't be a problem to cut and respline. I just need to find the dimensions. Then, if I follow the Novak bell housing instructions, I should be able to go 4.3 TBI to T-18 to D18 with close to stock length driveshafts.

Still not 100% sure what this is going in, but that would be ~76:1 crawl in my '70!

 

What spacer? The AA "adapter" is a bellhousing AFAIK. The Ford input shaft is the shortest available. It has the right length for the GM bellhousing without any adapter. You could cut your shaft and respline, but it woulden't be any shorter than the Ford shaft without building a custom bellhousing with a shallower depth.

Ask the machinist how much he would charge to cut and respline. I doubt he can cut and respline for as little as you can find a used Ford 2WD T-18, which will supply the additional parts you need.

 

Parts in Lawrence, KS, are hard to come by. We don't have any pick and pull yards, just recyclers, and they think everything they sell is made of pure gold. Generally speaking, unless I stumble across it like this particular T-18, I generally would have to buy a cheap parts vehicle from private party and hope to resell the unwanted items to recoup costs in order to get something like that (Which I have done in the past, but such a PITA). Machinists then become a viable option. This guy thinks he could do it around $100. He is just a small shop that has been in business since before I was born. Word of mouth is his only advertising. Quite a back-log, though. My knuckles have been there for a month now.

 

So is this input shaft stuff that partsmike sell just a ford 2wd t18 input shaft? I have a couple of FSJ t18s laying around and I have access to some cheap ford t18s. Is the only thing I need to get these to work is a ford t18 input shaft?