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My Next Problem- Power Steering Vs Power Brakes.

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Buildflycrash, Dec 28, 2021.

  1. Jan 12, 2022
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    White City, NY 14617
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    " Second from water pump > PS pump only. "
    Your probably sick of this fix, But this won't do anything. Second one from Crank To PS pump only.

    Cheap fixes do take a while.....But I like 'em :whistle:
     
  2. Jan 12, 2022
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2022 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    No?? Thinking the crank turns the pump. Pump turns the PS. Yes??

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Jan 12, 2022
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    White City, NY 14617
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    No Sir. Crank Turns ALL & Everything . Inner belt from Crank to PS pump. :bananatool:
     
  4. Jan 12, 2022
    Jw60

    Jw60 Airbender and interrupter of the light guard. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    There is a steering box in the way :confused:



    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022
  5. Jan 12, 2022
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    White City, NY 14617
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    S@&% ! Will the pump pivot or lift up? Dammit !..... run off the water pump pulley then , if you can keep a proper tension on it ?
     
  6. Jan 12, 2022
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2022 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    No. That’s going back to page 1.
     
  7. Jan 12, 2022
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    White City, NY 14617
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    I'm sorry here , Man. All this 'cuz of that steering box. Try running it off the Water Pump pulley . I hope your radiator Fits ?
     
  8. Jan 12, 2022
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2022 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    Radiator fits? :steamed:

    Next weeks problem.

    Here’s the new photo from tonight.

    [​IMG]
     
    Lockman, Fireball, Jw60 and 1 other person like this.
  9. Jan 13, 2022
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    White City, NY 14617
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    That has to work.....most likely be fine. Way to stick with it .:beer:
     
  10. Jan 13, 2022
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Northern California
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    In my experience this setup leads to many eaten alternators from excessive belt tension and slipping belts on the pulley driving the mechanical fan. The alternator is the lightest load item in your accessory drive system. You are using it to tension the water pump pulley which with a mechanical fan and pushing water is the highest load item. The water pump pulley is transferring power to the power steering pump, which is a higher load accessory than the alternator. Your belt contact on the water pump pulley is less than 25% of the circumference of the pulley but you have increased the load on the water pump bearing and alternator bearings.
    Rubicon and Colorado type trips will put some serious load on the belt from the power steering pump to water pump belt and likely cause the crank to water pump to alternator belt to slip. On the street it might be fine, in the rocks it looks like poor power steering performance to me.
    The correct way to drive the power steering pump in a V belt system is off the crank.
    Just my .02
     
    45es and ITLKSEZ like this.
  11. Jan 13, 2022
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    I hate to pile on, but I agree. I’m afraid the contact area on the water pump pulley isn’t great enough to turn the water pump and spin the power steering, no matter how tight you make it. There’s just not enough friction available.

    You’re not out of options though. You have 2 unused pulleys out front from the crank to the water pump. You can get a small belt to go there and fab up a small adjustable idler to fit above the oil pump. This will take a lot of stress off the alternator and ensure the steering will work fine.
     
    Rich M. and Norcal69 like this.
  12. Jan 13, 2022
    Lockman

    Lockman OK.....Now I Get It . 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    White City, NY 14617
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    My last 2 cents on this problem here is it's all :( just 'Cuz of that steering box !
    From what I gather, Scott has two different GM PS pump brackets that he's tried . One too high & one too low . Like was suggested a long time ago, either find a mid range Bracket or Fab something to allow proper use of the drive belts & be done. The previous installs are certainly showing difficulties to work around when changing to a different engine . While we all sincerely try to advise & help , more Custom work is dictated here, to amend the Custom work done Previously .
     
  13. Jan 13, 2022
    cj2atruck

    cj2atruck Member

    Spokane, WA
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    Agree with other, your water pump solution isn't going to work very well, as it takes too much power to run the power steering pump.

    One solution would be to fabricate a mount for an idler pulley between the power steering pump and the crank and run the idler off the back of the belt. This would route your belt away from the steering box and solve your problem. Looks like you have plenty of room for an idler.
     
    SFaulken likes this.
  14. Jan 13, 2022
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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  15. Jan 13, 2022
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2022 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    Oh well damn it. I was worried I didn't have enough contact on water pump.
    fix 1 - run PS off crank and make idler to move belt away from PS gear.
    fix 2 -add idler to WP belt to create more contact
    fix 3 - start over.

    Even with a remote PS pump/tank I think I'd still need to run the belts this way. I'm not wanting to redo all the work I did putting in the YJ swinging pedals and I have not found a way to just swap the brake booster or MC to a shorter unit. (that would be easy)
     
  16. Jan 13, 2022
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash More or Less in Line. 2022 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    Your the man!!
    I bought it!! Even if it leaks all over and I have to use it as a core it's a good part to try.

    I'm getting very close to running this motor with the Holley Sniper swap complete. I'll run the current setup in the garage for now. I'll have time to test it on the street before any trips are planned. Just need to finish the fuel tank and plumbing install, get a radiator attached.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
    ITLKSEZ and Fireball like this.
  17. Jan 13, 2022
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
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    Fixes 1 and 2 would put the idler on the tension-side of the belt. That’s less than ideal.
     
  18. Jan 13, 2022
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    You don't want to hear this but get rid of the original issue. The Herm steering mess.
     
    timsresort, duffer, Norcal69 and 4 others like this.
  19. Jan 13, 2022
    Buildflycrash

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    There are definitely things I like about the Herm kit. Would I do it again?....NO Do I want to start over? No....but maybe.
     
    timsresort likes this.
  20. Jan 13, 2022
    Norcal69

    Norcal69 Out of the box thinker 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    Don’t be embarrassed……
    I fell into the Herm trap when I got into the Jeep hobby too. Eventually you know better and make things how they are supposed to be.
     
    timsresort and Lockman like this.
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