Offset Dana 44 with flanged axles

If you are serious about the axle, check with Forward Air about portal to portal shipping. The seller would have to deliver the axle to an air terminal nearby, and the buyer picks it up at his local terminal. Likely they would want it strapped to a pallet.

 

..which is how I obtained my first axle.
St Louis to San Diego by Forward Air.

 

pm sent

 

OK,

My confusion follows my ADD as well most days. I've been wanting to ask, but I think I figured it out, and now have a good understanding by reading this thread and others repeatedly as well as finding different 'articles' out there.

First, 47v6's post on building his own rocks it. To have the time and tools to tinker is time to learn. This is why I have the jeep (and it's a non-analog way for this techie to relax).

I have a set that came off mine, (as also Fokker lists on his profile): Dana 27 front, 4.88; Tapered Dana 44 rear, 4.88, power-lok. They both have 10" brakes...

I'm rebuilding the 'flanged' D-44/4.88/Detroit/Moser axles and the D-27/4.88/Detroit Ez-Lunchbox (?)/setup for power steering I found solely for the 11" brakes as a set (now, a little scope creep with new bearings, seals etc. all the way through).

I've been lost in the 'FF' vs/ "Flanged" vs/ Tapered conversation for the last few days trying to understand the pros, cons and benefits...

I've been thinking: Once I'm back up with the new axles; I'll have the originals lying around looking for a new something-something... um, may be just put that $1000 into a trailer or save a little more for a new 8274... dunno yet.

OK, I'm watching for a Dana 30. I'd prefer that over the D-27. Or may be a D-44 out of a scout. Seems to be like hens teeth for both lately on the local CL. (not buying a full scout to part it out in other words).

BUT aside from such...

I get the 'heavy duty' part of the FF idea. I like the locking-hub idea too (cool factor). I'm not seeing the full benefit in a 'close to stock' approximation (my jeep) with no larger than 32" tires at the moment... well, unless like Fokker, I grenaded or had some other breakage or malady with the existing setup and I needed to fix: might as well convert when broken... Am I wrong?

I don't see an issue with the flanged version either.

So, I was trying to figure out if I'd want to keep the D-27/D-44-powerlok for future or sell... I've been kind of looking for a D-27 powerlok and then having the choice of going that route rather than the non-select locker route... hmmmmm. so many ways to get the hide off the cat...

I ran across this antique article that helps me make a little sense of it all:
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/t...154-0910-early-dana-44-full-floater-axle-kit/

 

All this talk of these flanged axles makes me want to buy the one that was offered to me for 200 bux and flip it...

 

There are too many choices I know. I would really like to have a flanged 44 in mine. I did not realize how expensive they are. After listening to the knowledge and wisdom I think I will probably pick up a used 3 series power lok for mine ( 2-piece axle) and run it like that till I start to have troubles. Heck I have not broke it in 20 yrs and I have abused it in the past. I have more of a gentle foot since it is not controlled by bud light ha ha . I have the dana 27 in the front with a ratchet locker ( poor man posi). This tread has definitely enlightened me. I will continue to look for a flanged 44 locally or within a couple hundred miles and sit it in the corner for now. The rebuild of my 225 will probably take all my mad money for a while anyway.

Mike

 

If you have the stock, factory,19 spline D44 tapered axle with original axles and a powerlock, run with no fear; this assumes you are maintaining the axle.

Be aware, if you break an axle, hub, etc, the wheel can/will-wobble/fall off.
Carrying spare axles in the Jeep takes up space and adds weight; at the minimum, take axles with you and keep at base camp. (camp is usually closer than home in most cases)
If you do carry axles, press new axle bearings on and grease them up before you need them. Too hard to do this in the field.
Also remember to carry/take with you the rear hub puller to pull the rear hub, along with the necessary tools.
Seals, shims, gaskets, etc not really necessary; re-use what you have; remember, you are performing an emergency field repair.

If you break a flanged shaft, the same above applies minus the hub puller; flanged axles are more bulky to carry, and more expensive to have lying around.

Another method is to carry a front wheel spindle and front wheel hub with wheel bearings and seals ready to bolt on. You can turn down/modify the spindle to fit into the rear axle housing, much like a full float set-up. This allows you to then bolt a wheel and tire onto the rear; we won't care about the brakes, remove the backing plate, pinch the brake line off and go. remember the tripod comment I made above? Combat tactics when trying to recover a vehicle off the trail or to be towed along the trail.

The point I want to make clear is getting a Jeep out on all 4 wheels is necessary....to get it out on all 4 wheels.
Jeeps in general do not make good tripods.

The full float set-up allows for ease of towing, just unlock the hubs and go. You should also carry the drive flanges as back-up or swap them out for a really tough trail. Also, if you break an axle, your wheel stays put because it's not attached to the axle and all the vehicle weight is on the spindle and wheel hub/bearings. You can still drive and or tow the Jeep out.
You can carry an extra spindle and wheel hub with bearings and seals and this might fit all 4 corners of your Jeep in case of wheel bearing/wheel hub failure.

On a related note, if you blow the gear set (ring and pinion) on a rear axle with tapered flanged axle, what will you do with the trail head 5 miles out?
Can't yank the axles out, got to have the wheels on; can't take the rear driveshaft out(well, you could) but the rear wheels on the ground will still turn the damaged gears.
Most likely, you'll have to remove the ring gear from the differential case/limited slip device. So you'll need that hub puller just to get the axles out to do this...
And then reassemble the rear axle to get the Jeep driveable/towable.
This is an extreme remedy for extreme situation; remember, combat tactics. (yes, I've seen it done)

 

I find a few offset flanged axles a year. They are still out there, you just have to look. Just sold one at the swapmeet last week for $500. I drove roundtrip over 8 hours to get it and only went because the guy had 2 of them. The main reason for going to them beside the 11" brakes, is the availability of lockers for 30 spline axles as compared to 19 or 10 splines. Having R & P build one with thicker tubes, disc brakes, locker and Dutchman axles is a much better way to go when all is said and done over rebuilding 45 year old steel.. They also ship if needed.

 

You have a third option, dont't worry about it.
The only time I had a D44 axle break was while driving at 30 MPH on a service road in Vail CO.
I pretty much destroyed a powerlock in Farmington NM, axles were fine.
Running a flanged 44 in the Commando, not quite sure how I broke the old unit.

 

This is the line of thinking I have had with all this. Only difference is that I have big tools, pile of junk parts and a bit of time and some determination to teach myself how to make some parts. For the amount of money tied up into a flanged D44, you can pretty much have whatever you want and for a bit more REALLY whatever you want. Ford, D60 etc. In my mild wheeling experience, I had AMC20s, D41 and D44 flanged axles. I never had issue with any of them. Remember, thats mild wheeling. I am going Full Float for only one reason, flat towing. If it wasn't for that, I wold flog this tapered axle until I broke it. I don't have my full float installed or completed yet, have brand new 35's on so lets see if i can wreck it and I will be sure to get back to you on it. I can almost guarantee I will not be able to wreck it, but I will do burnouts to see just for you today... brroooom broom mother effer!!!!

I will be installing my gears on my FF axle. I did the gears up front in my D30, but that gets used infrequently. Seems to work fine. If you care about destroying the gears and bearings you might want to get a pro to do it. I will learn from my mistakes if i make them. Thats part of the package for me.

The beauty of Herms kit is that you can bolt it on with no regard to the gears. You should be able to do it in an afternoon or a day or if you really milk it, a weekend. Not only that it wold be really cool.

 

Focker,
Do you have an FSB?
There is a chapter there about the work involved in setting up a Ring and Pinion gear set. If you haven't seen it, a quick synopsis would be...
1) Install the pinion gear bearings with the shim stack based on the markings on the old pinion that was in that housing compared to the markings on the new pinion.
a. if the new pinion is aftermarket, it won't have any + or - markings on it, the shim stack thickness is a complete guess.
b. install the pinion gear into the axle housing with the proper shim stack thickness to achieve the specified bearing preload. This is a second shim stack on the pinion.
2) After checking the differential case and the new ring gear for runout, install the ring gear onto the differential case and check the assembly for runout. It may require removal and re-installation in a different orientation to achieve minimum runout.
3) Install the differential side bearings using the same shim thickness on each side as was removed from that differential case. This needs a press to do properly, you don't want to just beat them on with a BFH. If using a new or replacement differential case, there is a procedure described in the FSB to arrive at a shim stack thickness. This involves installing the bearings on the case, installing the case into the housing, measuring with a dial indicator the movement side to side, dividing that measurment by half, and putting that thickness shim stack on each side, with an additional .015 in the ring gear side. This whole procedure involves installing and removing the side bearings twice without damaging them.
4) Mark the gear teeth with a marking compound and check the tooth engagement pattern. Reading and interpreting the pattern according to the diagrams in teh FSB will show whether the pinion depth is correct as well as indicate correct backlash. If the pinion depth needs changing, complete dissasembly is required to change the shim stack thickness underneath the inner pinion bearing race.
5) Reassemble, repeat the marking and pattern reading steps. Repeat disassembly, changing shim stack thickness, reassembly and pattern reading sequence as necessary until the pattern is satifactory. Do all this without damaging any of the bearings in the process, this will require specialized tools to pull the side bearings off the differential case and/or the proper driver tools to get the pinion bearing outer race removed/replaced.

This labor and the skill, experience and tooling required is what you will be paying for. $250 is a bargain deal for this job, most shops will charge much more.

Don

 

The biggest thing to take away from a thread like this one is that if you do still have a two piece axle, make sure the nut is torqued right. If you find a FF kit or a flanged axle on your travels and can afford it buy it. Only you can control how much pressure you place on the throttle.