Need Help Identifying What I Have

Here are some more pictures of it, if there is any need for another angle on things. Just don't pay attention to the rooster...

 

The M38A1 was the military version of the CJ-5...although it pre dates the CJ-5, so I guess it would be more accurate to say the CJ-5 is the civilian version of the M38A1...
They're mostly similar vehicles, and most parts will interchange.

 

Re the back end of the frame, who knows why the PO cut the frame horns. You need some kind of member across there to support the body and hold the spring hangers at a fixed distance. The M38A! frame had elaborate bracing to support the pintle hook. You can't use any of that with a rear-mounted gas tank. It may be that the PO wasn't skilled/experienced enough to install the rear tank with the factory cross member in place (it can be done http://boyink.com/cj6/gas-tank-installing-rear/ )

It seems like chassis and frames are a lot more common than solid bodies. This makes sense, since the body is attacked by rust so much faster than the chassis. One option would be to get rid of all the PO's hackery on this frame, and find a replacement frame. The cut-off rails could be fixed, but it might be easier just to replace.

There are lots of pictures of steering setups in the Saginaw steering sticky thread of the Builds forum http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/showthread.php?17911-Saginaw-power-steering-(pics)-please-add-yours!! One thing that strikes me about your steering is the funny angle that the steering gear sits at. Realize that the intermediate and late bodies have a different seating position than the early Jeeps. The driver's seat is moved maybe 4" outboard from the early jeep position. The Jeeps with Saginaw steering have two U-joints in the steering shaft, and the axis of the steering gear is inboard of the seating position. You might want to straighten the steering gear orientation, to be more like an intermediate.

 

Thanks for clearing that up with the body mount. I am still tossing around what I should do. I feel that I would like to keep the frame and the tub at this point, I would like to make repairs or changes to make this a safe jeep, and maybe a few less jeeps in one, if its possible. I'm willing to put the time in..

I have another question about the body. it seems there is some question about whether its intermediate or late. I was looking at rocker panels on the website linked before about the body supports. A rocker panel for an M38A1 body shows the "Jeep" stamp like mine, it does say its not usual but they make it seem like it could have been used. Also the passenger side has a mount for a spare tire i believe, its in the swoop, not sure if that's significant. I do not remember seeing any weld marks on the body, but is there any possibility that some of the body is not from a late or intermediate cj5?

 

I wonder if the frame outriggers are for the roll bar mount, and not for the body mount??

 

It's not intermediate body. You can look at an intermediate body here http://nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~reese/ResizedJeepIPics/ - you can see that the floors and dash are quite different from what you have. This is my CJ-6, but it's the same as a CJ-5 except for added length behind the seats.

If CE associates the Jeep stamp with the M38A1, it's a mistake. To reiterate, the military bodies had no Jeep brand stamping. All the CJs from 1954 through 1971 had block letter stamping JEEP. There was another style of Jeep lettering from 1972 through mid 1974. Your body has the lettering from 1974 and later, and is not a '74 or a '75.

The late CJ-5s had the side mounted spare when equipped with the tailgate.

Except for the small bow pocket over the rear wheel, this body is definitely from 1976 or later. And the bow pocket may have been eliminated at any time after 1975.

 

Got it.

 

If it were an M38A1 frame wouldn't it have the shackle reversal up front? This is a serious case of "jeep soup". Nearly Hobo Stew.... Nothing wrong with jeep soup.....but soup it is.

 

I'll be back at it again tomorrow, making the trip tomorrow, will be there for 4 or 5 days. I'm sure I will have more questions. Hoping to get the Lift on and new brake lines run. I have stainless fuel lines to run also if the lines I bought are the correct ones. Other than that it will just be some more thinking about what to do. Right now part of me wants to get a new body from a 70 or 71 CJ5, I found one for $800 and a pretty rusted one for $250. Then the other part of me says to just make this thing work with what I have. A lot to think about. Thanks again everyone for your responses, I can't thank you enough.

 

One thing to consider. The 225 V6 is shorter than the 231 V6.
The stock distributor may be bigger, maybe the electronic version, I am not sure of the detail there.
It will have the fan pushed to the front farther than the 225 V6.
I bought a 231 and was to swap the front of the motor to shorten it so that it would fit in the early engine hole.
The intermediate and late ones came with an inline 6 that is longer than the V6.
Care must be taken when reverse engineering jeep soup.

 

225 & 231 are the same external dimensions. 231 may have a longer water pump for some applications, I don't recall.
The HEI electronic distributor is larger than the point type.

 

I took your advice with the jeep, I literally just bought another jeep. It is on a trailer behind my truck going down the interstate right now. I planned to use this jeep for parts as the owner I purchased it from stated extreme rust. However, after seeing it, other than the floor and rear crossmember, not much that is beyond repair. So now I believe it would be best to do like you said and possibly part out the other jeep and move forward with this one. The reason why I posted here is because I still need help identifying this *new* jeep. Owner did not know much about it, not even the year and did not know if the engine was stock. I looked for a vin plate and didn't see one. Here are some pictures of it. Again, as always I really appreciate everyone's help and input. I can't thank the people on this forum enough, and I just joined! I have learned a lot but still would like the experts here to take a look.



I promise this is the last one for a while!


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this one looks more like it should all over.
It is in the mid 1970 vintage. I say this based on:
the under seat gas tank changed mid 1970
reflectors on the front fenders mid 1970
(check the hood for 2 holes near the front latch. if they are there get a picture and post it.
these are from reflectors that were on the hood not the fender.)
the front fenders look strange. there is a cut along the rear fender lip. suggests they were altered, the front part being swapped.
(reflectors in the fenders later in 1970)
the floor picture shows all original stuff.
If the motor is a V6 it is correct, should have a T14A 3 speed transmission and a Dana 18 transfer case.
axles look correct, even the springs are correct. Check the rear axle for flanged or not flanged. Flanged will have a plate that the rear wheel and drum are attached to.
heater is correct.
wiring looks different than my early 1970.
battery tray is home made.
Steering is all stock.front tie rods and wheel.

take a picture of the dash board, will give clues to year and alterations.

This time period is a strange one. In late 60s early 70s all auto manufacturers were in the middle of some drastic changes. Early year models are different than later year models. AMC bought JEEP from Kaiser in February of 1970, and then the changes started. It is not clear which were in the pipe to begin with, gas tank to the rear, reflectors. 1955 to 1971 is the early group, 72 to 76 is the intermediate group and 76 on is the late group.

regarding the comment "I promise this is the last one for a while!" we all have fun doing this what is it thing.
Jim

 

This is definitely getting fun, mid 1970 is where we are at. Did you by chance see the willy's tailgate? I'm not sure if that's original or not, I know the engine would be incorrect. But I was curious. I will get some picture of the dash and all when I get home in a few hours, drove 7 hours to get to it, left at 3am... Haven't had the WTH am I doing moment yet though.

 

The tail gate should fit the entire range 55 through 71, so it saying willys (pronounced will iss, search you tube for advertisment)
is no big deal.
front grill turn signals are the same as my early 70.
take pictures of the rear tail lights, they look different.

Drive careful.
Jim

 

Great - I think you have a lot to work with here!

It's rusty, but it looks relatively unmolested. Certainly if your goal is to have a period-correct resto-mod or restoration, this fills that bill very well. I don't have a lot to add to JPC's assessment. it'd be good to get a better pic of the rear wheel hub - if it's a flanged axle, that's quite desirable. The earlier taperd axle will have a big nut that holds the axle to the flange, and the flanged axle is forged in one piece (so no nut).

 

that one looks like a 71 . even has the green paint on engine fender , every thing looks like mine , cut out for rear gas tank . front floor ,lights . windshield . so which one is going to be parted out . jeep illness is growing

 

I will be parting out the black jeep I posted originally probably. Gonna wait and see if I need any of the parts though since not much is known about this one. Here are the other pictures, took them during a pit stop.

The hood, front from the inside
Hope this is a good enough picture for the axle



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