starter won't disengage after starting

My engine starts fine, but the starter doesn't disengage after starting; it just keeps spinning. All the wires on the back of the ignition switch seem to be going to the correct location:

BAT = to voltage regulator and then to side of the solenoid that the + battery cable goes to (red wire)(another wire on this terminal; appears to go to the signal flasher)
IGN = to + side of coil (green wire)(there's also 2 other wires connected to this terminal; purple and gray, and both go somewhere on the inst. cluster)
ST = to small post on starter solenoid (blue wire)
ACC = nothing there

I only have one small post on top of the solenoid, so no ballast resistor. The solenoid is also grounded to the starter motor via a metal bracket. This is as best as I can represent what I currently have:



-WRM

 

maybe the bendix spring is broken?

 

What engine? What starter? What kind of vehicle we working on here?

 

1965 F-134, 12V starter with solenoid mounted to the starter (1 small post)

-WRM

 

After further investigation, it appears that my starter bendix isn't disengaging far enough, and the flywheel is rubbing against the starter gear. The teeth on the starter gear are lightly rounded on the outside edges because of it. I disassembled the starter to look at the bendix, but it didn't look like it was sticking too far out; it appeared to be retracted. And like an idiot, curiosity got the best of me and I twisted the bendix effectively locking it out...

So, I knocked out the bendix drive pin and will try to spin it tomorrow and get it unlocked again. Here's a pic of the bendix gear before I disassembled the starter; does it look like it's extended out?


Also, here's pic of the rounded teeth:


If needed, where's the best place to purchase a new bendix and maybe somewhere I can cross-reference the one I have to make sure I've got the correct one to begin with? My starter is a Prestolite MDU (7004 11W), and it looks like the parts houses mainly carry parts for the Delco-Remy's. My bendix number is 480373 L7. I was also wondering if maybe the bendix I have is incorrect and slightly too long, giving me problems? I could always take ~.150 off the end of the gear and see if that cures my problem... Or, if anyone has a known, good starter, could you measure the OAL of the bendix gear so that I could compare it with mine?


-WRM

 

Those teeth look as if they may have normal wear pattern for a well used starter. Each time it spins out, the bendix gear is likely to collide with the flywheel teeth to some degree as it engages, even in normal use.

 

I would bet you're getting acc voltage to the solenoid, either through a faulty switch, mis-wired, or maybe even feedback through the coil circuit. I've had starter switches come out of the box that didn't match what was stamped on the back of them, and others that just plain didn't work. Need to start poking around with the multimeter.

 

its gotta be the bendix spring, should be a cheap fix, couple dollars

 

I'm not much of an electrical guy, so let me see if I get this straight... With everything hooked up and the engine off, there shouldn't be any voltage present on the little lug of the solenoid at the starter. Voltage should only be present when engaging the starter. After the engine starts and the key is in the "run" position, there should be no voltage at the little lug; correct?

-WRM

 

That is correct. Key "ON" with engine running, there should be no power to the small terminal on the solenoid and no power on the strap from the solenoid to the starter motor windings. If the bendix assy has the screw portion jammed with gunk/dirt/dried grease it will keep the front portion from retracting all the way back as is needed. As GeofferyL said about the coil spring being stretched, this can happen and the cause of this is the engine moving backwards while the starter is cranking. Kickback of the engine has stretched many of these springs and I have replaced many of them.

 

I'll try to clean things up the best I can, re-install and check voltage. Is Walck's the best place around for a replacement starter drive at $45? I can't find anywhere that sells just the spring...

-WRM

 

I remember reading on this site about putting a Toyota (I think) starter on the F-134's. Do a search and you will find. The rebuilt starters they are installing were very reasonably priced.

 

Thanks for the tip; that's the first I've heard of the conversion! I still want to try and make mine work, but if I can't, I can always go this route. Or, put the 'yota starter on anyway while I sort out the issues with the original.

And for those that might find my thread in a search at some point, here's a link to one of the threads:
http://www.earlycj5.net/forums/show...-on-F134-fact!/page2&highlight=toyota+starter

And here's a link to the starter #16224
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/pa...4&fromString=search&isSearchByPartNumber=true

-WRM

 

Is the toyota a direct fit and wire up?????

 

Supposedly, you have to drill out the mounting holes in the flange to 1/2, and it wires up similarly. Just don't use the green wire on the toyota starter.

-WRM

 

Well, a little progress was made today. I cleaned up the starter and put it back together (thank God for that video on how to spin the starter drive to unlock it...) and re-installed it. I put some washers between the starter flange and the mounting surface to shim it, and it now doesn't drag on the flywheel.

But the starter gear still doesn't want to stop spinning. After a little messing around, I found that the problem doesn't seem to be with the starter itself, but rather the ignition switch or the solenoid? I used one of the Dorman universal keyed switches and I don't think it's working correctly. The starter will sometimes start when the key is turned to "run" and the spring-loaded "start" position doesn't always have to be used. After the engine starts, I have to carefully "jimmy" the switch back just a hair to get the solenoid to disengage without turning off the engine.

Does this sound like a switch problem to you? If so, are there any better quality switches out there, or should I just return the switch I have and swap it for another one? At this point, I'd almost consider putting in a push-button switch if it solves the problem...

-WRM

 

it could be the ignition switch then, try testing your ignition with a continuity tester to see if the switch is bad and send power constantly to the starter solenoid. i think i have a ignition switch from a 69 v6 cj5 laying around if yours needs replacing.

 

Well, now I'm even more confused... I performed a continuity test on the ignition switch (on the vehicle with the wires still connected), and when the key is in the "run" position, the "ST" terminal shows continuity (where the blue wire to the solenoid is). So I thought I had the problem solved; bad switch. But with the switch off the vehicle, I can't replicate the problem; the "ST" terminal only has continuity when it should; when in the spring-loaded "start" position. So I'm at a loss... It's almost as if something is bridging power from the "start" position to the "run" position with all the wires hooked up.

How many wires (on average) should be hooked up to the ignition switch? I don't have any accessories, so there's nothing in the "acc" position. I have the one, blue wire in the "st" position for the solenoid, two wires in the "bat" position, and three in the "run" position. If it matters, I have the F-134 with generator, factory turn signals, and 4-way flashers.

-WRM

 

I'd try hot-wiring the starting and ignition wires from where you removed the key switch. Either they will work right or they won't, then you'll know if the problem was the switch. If not, start checking the wiring harness back to the starter and solenoid.

 

I'll try to do some more testing this evening. I may even get rid of the 4-way flashers to get that out of the equation. According to the threads and diagrams I've read, the ignition switch (on my '65) should have one wire on the ST terminal going to the solenoid, one wire on the BAT terminal going to the voltage regulator (and then to the big terminal on the solenoid), and the IGN terminal should have a wire going to the + side of the coil. Currently, I've got 2 additional wires on the IGN terminal, and 1 additional wire on the BAT terminal; I'll have to find out where those are going and why.

-WRM