Disc Brake Swap: double check parts list, hub/bearing/race combo

Disc Brake Swap: Parts list, hub/bearing/race combo, Pictorial

Note: If you are considering doing this, the result will be incompatible with combat wheels (without a spacer) and 16" steels (without a slight amount of grinding or a very thin spacer). To consider all your options, look at the Suzuki Samurai donor disc brake conversion as discussed at http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=145811 and http://www.42fordgpw.com/mods9.html

Pictorial here: http://www.earlycj5.com/forums/show...st-hub-bearing-race-combo&p=967766#post967766

Here is a parts list using the howto on earlycj5.com, the most recent JP magazine article, and other internet sources: (NAPA numbers)

• 2 Caliper brackets: from 1/2 ton GMC/Chevy 4x4 with Dana 44 front axle [got mine off ebay]
• 1 Caliper, right semi-loaded: CAL SE4596 $42, $22.50 core [includes caliper bolts, caliper bolt slides, anti-rattle clip, banjo bolt washer/gaskets]
• 1 Caliper, left semi-loaded: CAL SE4597 $42, $22.50 core [includes caliper bolts, caliper bolt slides, anti-rattle clip, banjo bolt washer/gaskets]
• 1 set Pads, organic: TS728A $17 [recommended if you don't have a booster]
• 2 Brake hoses: UP36761 $18 each; $14 at RockAuto, ships from same place as studs so no extra shipping fees <- use '78 Chevy K-10 as application
• 2 Banjo bolts: UP82698 $5 each
• 1 pair Speedbleeders: UP82698 $12 [optional]
• 2 Rotors: 48-85667 $51 each
• 10 Wheel studs: BK6411144 $2.49 each; $1 each at RockAuto <- IIRC application is Buick LeSabre '65-70, front. The non-Napa PN is Dorman 610-106
• 12 Spindle bolts: 3/8"-24, 1" long grade 8, $0.79 each at Tractor Supply [be sure to verify that this length is correct for your application, or better yet, convert to studs]
• 2 1/2" NPT flush plug to replace filler plug, got mine at Fastenal 1/2-14 WP097111, 1181145, had to grind it to 1 cm thick
• 2 5/8"-18 nuts for brake hose to hardline mounting tab, at Napa

Just in case:

• Old style hub oil seal: NOS 21101
• Old style hub inner/outer bearing: 18590; race: 18520

Other things:

• Get a set of knuckle seals
• You'll need to grind the knuckles and calipers
• Omix Ada spindle nut socket
• For J54 owners: Either a double flare tool and pipe cutter, or plan on buying replacement 3/8" line and 10 mm adapters
• 36 mm or the SAE equivalent for the rear spindle nut

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I'm prepping to do a front disc brake swap and trying to make sure I understand everything. I'm particularly confused about how to correctly prepare the hub so the rotor will align properly with the caliper.

The hub has a nice flat mating surface around the stud holes and no bevel/curve near tube, just like the one on the right of this picture: http://www.jpmagazine.com/techartic...05_drum_to_disc_brake_swap_plus/photo_13.html The bearing part numbers match US hubs. I've read that early hubs have this type back.

My confusion is from a thread on the forum which says that the thicker inner bearing race (LM501311) won't fit in early hubs. Is this race always necessary, or only used on a case to case basis? How would I verify if I have the correct hubs?

 

Forgot to ask, anyone ever heard of Left hand thread wheel bolts that match Dorman 610106 (NAPA BK6411144)? I dig the LHT and it'll be sad to loose it.

 

The thicker race is used with the later drum brake hubs that use the wider bearings. The early hubs use a thinner bearing that is placed so you don't need the special race.

 

Thanks nickmil!

Anything else I need to do to verify that the rotor will mate with my hub properly?

My outer wheel bearing is 18590. From rockauto, this matches with pre-1962 Jeep hubs, so I guess that means I have an early hub for sure.



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Here's the details on the different bearings according to rockauto:

pre '62, 18950 and 18520:
Taper Bearing Cone; Inside Diameter=1.625", Length=0.6875", Radius=0.14"
Taper Bearing Cup; Outside Diameter=2.875", Length=0.50", Radius=0.062"

'62 and later, BR35: (cup is LM501310)
Taper Bearing Cone; Inside Diameter=1.625"; Length=0.7800"; Radius=0.14"
Taper Bearing Cup; Outside Diameter=2.891"; Length=0.58"; Radius=0.031"

LM501311:
Taper Bearing Cup; Outside Diameter=2.891"; Length=0.716"; Radius=0.093"

To tell if you have new vs old style hub: Oil seal is 2-7/8" OD on old style, 3" on new style

 

Should bolt up ok. Make sure you use the seal that matches your hub. I think they are different between early and late drum brake hubs but can't remember for sure. I'd mock them up first before packing the bearings and what not just to be sure

 

Ok, modified the parts list to include the oil seal in a just-in-case list. Old hub seal is OMIX-ADA #1670801, new is 1670802.

Do you think a 1" bore Master Cylinder is an acceptable match? It's my stock MC, there is no booster and I'll reduce/eliminate residual pressure valve for front line.

Also, is 15/16" bore WCs for the rear 11" drums ok, or should I use the '78 CJ rear bore size of 7/8"?

Small differences, I know, but I can do this just about anyway for the same price, so might as well make it as correct as possible.

 

Neat that we are doing the same conversion at the same time, only mine is a 66 which uses the later hubs. Thanks for the link to the updated JP article -I hadn't seen it and it does add new data from the older version.

I'm going thru the same issues of trying to get the right parts the first time. My original hubs look similar to the ones in your picture but are not faced enough to lay flat with the rotor so I got new hubs from CSE offroad (Omix #16705.04) that are machined flat. They are late model 65-76 style. My original seal is a 8430-S. If I got my PN right my bearings are Timken Set-45 which has a cone #LM501349 and std race # LM501310. The thicker cup that might be needed on the inner bearing for spacing is #LM501311 like you mentioned, but like you I was unsure under what conditions this is needed... with the late model hubs or the early model ones. I reasoned since the standard Set-45 bearing is spec'd for both inner and outer bearings for the 65-76 model years, I figured the spacer was therefore needed in the early hub or some other condition. EDITED-After re-reading the your referenced post, I realized I was confused as to which races to use in my later hubs - thanks to your question and info I am straight now and will install the thicker race first..

I used the Dorman 610-106 studs and got all 10 from Rock Auto for 20 incl. shipping. The NAPA equivalent were more expensive. We pressed the hubs and rotors together today so now I will be putting my knuckles back together and mounting them up. Haven't gotten to the MC yet so will be interested in your experience with that.


Although our projects are very similar, only a few years difference makes us use entirely different parts. Maybe I'll have some hair left when this is all over

Good luck with your project
Al

 

Glad to have the company.

Edited: Oops somehow completely misread your post and thought that you had earlier hubs on you '66... I have a spare set of '66 CJ-5 hubs and they have the later style (curved tube-to-flange area and 3" seals) too. I don't know for certain, but I think that some later style hub based disc upgrades didnt need the race, just luck or something else. Maybe someone can verify this.

Thanks for the heads up on the wheel studs price.

What MC were you thinking of using?

Can anyone verify that Dorman 610-106 are the proper studs for earlier hubs?

 

I got that Dorman Wheel stud # from both Nov.2001 and April 2007 JP Magazine disc upgrade articles.
The Stock studs have a shoulder dia (spec) of .620 and the 77 calls for .625. My rotor holes are .650 and the hubs are .600. Before we pressed the new studs in with a 20 ton press (like butter) we noticed there was .20 total gap between the center rotor hole and the hub body. This concerned me because if we got the rotor off center the wheel might vibrate noticeably, so we ran 1 or 2 layers of black electrical tape around the hub center and it took up the gap nicely, allowing the rotor to be centered during pressing.

Initially I went to the Dorman website and created a excel table of specs for about 45 different studs they offer, trying to find the best fit for the holes in the rotor/hub. One of the key elements are having the splines at the front of the shoulder to grip into the hub plate. Not many do (most splines are at the rear 1/3 of the shoulder), especially when looking for a .620 dia spline and at least .75" of shoulder length, with 1/2x20 thread and an overall stud length of at least 1 3/4". Only 5 met most of the size criteria and 3 of those were only 1-5/8" OAL ...

I then looked at the NAPA/Balkamp BK 6411144 offering and determined that it is actually the dorman 610106 made of black steel instead of shiny coated. In addition NAPA has them priced higher than what I found them for at Rock Auto (incl s&H) and they will rust sooner. So the relatively unique stud for a 70 Buick LeSabre, #610-106 turned out to be the best fit for the holes I had to fill. I just hope they are long enough for whatever wheel I end up using. If I get real lucky, I can use the wheels I currently have.

Al

 

Awesome research, thanks! I ordered 610106. You're right, they were the less than Napa after shipping. And their shipping covered a couple additional items' shipping as well, so I was able to save a bit more.

Now it's time for my brackets to get in and get this job started.

 

updated parts list

 

updated parts list.

Also, I'd like to add one bit of unsolicited opinion and one bit of advice compiled from various threads/advice on the forum:

There's a wide range of recommended donor vehicles but I had no luck seeing how their brackets would work on the Jeep while I was at junkyards. Also, the JYs that had the older stock wanted an arm and a leg, even for old Chevy parts where it was easy to see how the bracket would fit. So I ended up ordering the bracket off ebay. It was much easier and came blasted and painted... Someone told me that good junkyard legwork can get the parts for this mod for about $100. They must be awesome, bc the most I could haggle down to was about $250. So for peanuts more I did the same but will all new parts. In hindsight I should recommend finding a complete axle with discs already on them, they usually sell for $150-200 then you could part out the left overs.

Also, here's my $.02 from my recent conversion...

1) Determine if you have early or later style hubs. '62 and later used beefier bearings and space will affect pad clearance. Don't just rely on the year, double check by measuring the oil seal: 2-7/8" OD is earlier style, 3" is later style.
2) If you have a later hub, then it is recommended that you get the thicker inner bearing race (LM501311) so there is clearance for your future inboard pad.
3) Ensure that your hub has a nice flat mating surface. This statement is not verified, but the recommended flange thickness has been suggested to be .4".

 

I've gotten a few email and questions about the swap. I figured that I'd post up a pictorial. I'd gladly work with someone to help make this good enough to become a sticky in the forums.

There are 78 images in this set, so I'm only including the most interesting. If you go through the set, then you'll see notes on each step (picture).

Front disc install:

Jack up wheel


J54 owners: Click to read note on any front brake swap


Remove cap


Remove snap ring


Remove spindle nuts


Remove stock brakes


Remove the spindle


J54 owners: Dust covers require more room


Get old studs out


Hammer in the studs


Install wheel studs


Grinding Caliper and Knuckle


Grind fill plug to 1 cm thickness


Mock up


Put felt and rubber seal on axle. Install kingpin bearings and knuckle. Check hardline


J54 owners: install 3/8 nut onto hardline


Tighten king pin bolts


Set preload


Install rubber part of seal


Install knuckle seal


Gasketing the knuckle flange


Install spindle and caliper bracket


Install bracket


Fill up the knuckle with grease


Install hub and rotor


Install spindle nuts and washer


Anti sieze slide threads


Grease slides


Prep caliper for installation


Install caliper and slides


Install soft line after you've gotten the proper loop


Put gasketing on lock out hub bearing section


Install lock out hub bearing section


Install lock out hub cap


Semi-finished product


Bleed lines. Remove appropriate RPV.


J54 Disc Brake Swap


J54 Disc Brake Swap


J54 Disc Brake Swap


Put the tire back on.


Finished product

 

also edited first post for more parts information.

 

Added info about what the conversion means for wheel options and a note about the Sammy based swap:
"Note: If you are considering doing this, the result will be incompatible with combat wheels (without a spacer) and 16" steels (without a slight amount of grinding or a very thin spacer). To consider all your options, look at the Suzuki Samurai donor disc brake conversion as discussed at http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=145811 and http://www.42fordgpw.com/mods9.html"