Transmission choices/ road manners

I know they look wide as heck with those tires.

 

I don't mind a little whine from the dana 18 as long as I can run the od.

 

I would prefer to go with the 4.11's. But if I can get those axles. With the disk breaks, and upgraded shafts, AND lockers already built I would run the 4.88's.

 

Those axles will as the rear is offset to match the offset output of the 18.
Toyota Hi Lux (mini truck) uses a centered diff in the rear and that's probably what most people thought you were planning on. Have you checked the width of those axles? May be too wide. I'm not sure on the width of the FJ axles.

 

(F) = Front
(R) = Rear

Toyota
Mini (Hilux) 79-85 (F) 8" 55" (pass side drop)
Mini (Hilux) 79-85 (R) 8" 55"
Mini (Hilux) 86+ (R) 8" 58"
4Runners 96+ (R) 8" 60"
Tundra/T100 (R) 8.4" 66"
FJ40.45.55 (F) 57" (pass side drop)
FJ40.45.55 (R) 55"
FJ60.62 (F) 60" (pass side drop)
FJ60.62 (R) 58"
FJ80 (F) 64" (pass side drop)
FJ80 (R) 63.5"

 

I was planning on the center diff hilux originally and putting a fj60 carrier in it for strength and clearance. That's part of the reason I was considering a 300. Then I seen these axles and went that will work better.

If I run the correct offset rims I am guessing I will have between 6-10" of overhang per side in the front over stock. I will want to be as close as possible to the springs and bend the steering linkage down so it fits inside the rim at full arc. Realisticly I can see a width of 68" in the front outside tire to outside tire.


I have plans for a rear tilt hood/fender/wheel well one piece(bolted and reinforced 3 piece) front that should allow me enough space on the part of the remaining fender still attached to the tub for a low mount dual battery box/ tool box. I have wanted to do this for years as it will allow full access to the engine bay without tilting the hood forward(into a tree or something). Long story short I'm making custom front fenders no matter what I run for axles. I am just unsure at this point on what to use to keep it light weight.

Its one of those "if I get the great if not I will find another set later". At this point I am not ready for a axle upgrade so I will need to run them via drill for the next 2 years to keep them from rusting out if I do get them. Cleaning up the frame, fitting the top/doors and prepping for another tub are the next on the agenda

If I finish this thing under 10k I will be surprised. But when you build a rig for yourself you have to expect it to cost more.

 

I chose the SM420/D18/Warn combo for it versatility. I would have been just as happy with a 465, but I got a good deal ($65) on a NOS 420 so that is what I went with. Around here the 420 and the 465 are still very common. We have a lot of old trucks in fields, barns and the pull-and-save yards. The OD will work well with my stock 5.38 gears and if I ever replace the axles with newer-higher ratio models, the 420 will still give a good low crawl ratio. Just my $0.02

 

Another thing to think about is cost of repair if you do have an issue. The FJ series axles can get spendy if anything breaks or wears out. The Hi Lux trucks tend to be quite a bit cheaper. Dana 44's are typically way cheaper yet....

 

Yea about that. The guy decided to keep the fj60 all together. But he has some fj62 axles on a parts truck for a low price so I am using those. They are stock(just how I like to start) and I am removing them myself. They have the 4.11 and a stronger carrier then the 60 and a trussed axle shaft. I know about the weak links(the few weak links)and what to replace what needs replacing. It is hard to deny the fact that while wider then my current setup (60") they are shorter then a wagoner with a stock shaft thickness just shy of a dana 60.
I priced this out and done a bit of research. I have a lot more learning and stupid questions to ask do but my mind is made up on the axles.

Thanks for the input. You need to think of them as a Dana 60. Of course they can get spendy. But overall I am picking them over a 44. It is nothing against jeep(notice the lower case) it is just what I am using.

 

The problem with the t-18 is that there are so freaking many. And in most cases you can not tell the difference without taking them apart.

http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cat...ul_kits/borg_warner_t18_t19_overhaul_kit.html

No matter what I do I need to go with a adapter. I have found a few transmissions with the adapter's to a 20. But, after the cost of the shaft I would be better off just getting the entire adapter kit for a Dana 18. A steel adapter through r/p seems the way to go they have them for the Dana 20 and I imagine they have some kind of a set up for the 18.

I believe I need a adapter or different bel housing to bolt the t-18 to a 225. Something about 2 bolts if I remember right. With the ford there is clearance issues of the front shaft. 1/2 inch to long off the top of my head.

 

Go to Novak, if you get a Ford 2wd t18 with the extra ears you can drill the setup to bolt directly to a stock 225 Bellhousing if I remember right.

 

The Ford input shaft is the right length. You would need to do the case mod McRuff and Novak mentions or buy a Ford case R&P sells to bolt directly to the GM bellhousing. The Ford front bearing retainer needs to be machined to GM specs or buy one done and the GM pilot bushing needs reamed to match the Ford pilot of the input shaft. It's not terribly hard to do.
If you have a large hole 18 transfer case the 20 adapter works fine.
If you have a small hole 18 I'd recommend upgrading to the larger hole 20 case as they are typically stronger or if R&P is out of stock on the small hole adapter they can machine one down for the small hole. Might call up Rich or Paul and talk to them about it or e-mail them. They just got back from Elk hunting so it may take some time for them to catch up on the e-mail.

 

I have one in the works that will bolt up to my 225 bell housing And will directly(i will have to count the splines) bolt up to a Dana 18. I am 90 miles away from him now but should be able to get closer another time. Kind of holding out for that transmission. The t-18 that r/p sells is really tempting. I should have $600 in the used setup that bolts to the Dana 18.
If I go with r/p The NEW thing would be tough and if I go back and forth telling them what I want I think I can have one made/shipped to the house ready to bolt up to a Dana 18 for under $2500(plus core charge whatever that is. Shipping on these SUCKS). I almost never get to Oregon. So the transmission/adapter combo would have to be shipped. Like I said this is a last resort.

 

I am trying to stay away from adapters at all cost. Not just from the cost but also the length that it will add. I refuse to move my engine forward. Still going to toss electric fan's behind the grill mind you. But that is another way I am opening up the engine bay not a excuse to move the pulleys next to the radiator. I really don't like tight engine bays(hence the rear tilting hood/fenders/wheel wells later on). I plan on running double Cardan and not using the stock style parking break(I should have the hp third members also)to help reduce stress and the chance of vibration.

Thought there some wagoners(and other Jeeps) with 360's that had Dana 20's directly behind them. Could I use one of these t-18's and modify the back of the case to accept a Dana 18 changing the internals/ shaft in the rebuild.
Could the t-18 case take the stress of merely re taping holes to adapt to a Dana 18? I have no idea if this would even work. It seems like it could though. Sure someone has refused to order a adapter and done it at some point.

This would bolt up to a 225 bell housing without a adapter I am willing to have the bell housing taken to a shop if it would avoid adding length. Thought I seen a bell housing for a 225 that was cast (new) to bolt to a Ford t-18 case (one big adapter) somewhere. But, I can not seem to find it now.

 

Even the Jeep T-18 uses an adapter. The adapted Ford T-18 will be shorter overall because the Ford input shaft and Ford or GM bell is shorter than the Jeep parts. The Jeep transmission with a Ford input shaft and Ford or GM bell will be the same overall length as a Ford T-18 with an adapter kit. You can't change that. The R&P adapter may be thinner becasue it's made of steel, but that requires a different T-18 main shaft length, which may or may not be possible. But I don't think there's much length to reduce there, even if the adapter can be thinner.

To bolt up a Dana 18 to a T-18 with a Dana 20, you use the Dana 18 output gear and the Dana 18 bolts up to the adapter. Both the D20 and D18 have the same 'texas' bolt pattern. Very interchangeable. But the Dana 18 has to have the later 'big hole' case - the earlier Dana 18s with the small hole case won't work.

 

Thanks for the great link to the bell housing. Weather forgiving I will be starting disassemble here soon. I am told the bell housing behind the 231 that will bolt to the 225 will work if I drill a few holes still it is always nice to have a backup plan.
I was told po of the po(yea) of the t-18 that I have now(large hole) replaced the jeep input (main) shaft with a ford style when they did a rebuild. I need to see how that is going to work with the current bell housing.

 

I didn't read threw all the thread but you do not need an adapter on the front of the ford t-18 to the:v6:. Yes Advance Adapters does sell an expensive bell housing for this but it's not needed. You also don't need to use the stock front adapter from the Jeep. The retainer on the T-18 gets turned down, and the bell housing hole gets opened up a bit tell it's a slip fit. Then there's a 2 hole that get drilled for mounting. Novak has all this on there site somewhere. The adapter that goes between the tranny an transfer case is only 1" thick. There are no drive shaft clearance issues. If your using a twin stick dana 18 you will need to grind the side of the T-18 case because it's a close fit but it works, And works very well. Good luck.

 

Ok. I am not as tech oriented as most of you but I did my tranny 2 years ago. Went with Ford t18 with the 6 to 1 first/4.10 gears/stock d18 single stick. I had to adjust both drivelines in addition to the adapter for the tcase. Stock bell housing was used with a little work. Also some fab work for the floor cover to seal the elements. No overdrive and it works well at 60-65 mph. Rear stock 44 and front D30 disk breaks. Another guy in our club has the s420 with 4;27 gears and the overdrive. Works great. In closing I went with the t18 because they are more common and parts are more available than the sm420. PartsMike talked me into it for that reason.

Peter