Brake upgrade ?

The master cylinder I got from Herm has inverted flare connections. So my problem is when people talk about banjo bolts I'm com fused on how they work in that application or am I missing something. I have about 1" to make the turn from M/C before hitting the bellhousing and I'm at 5/16 tubing at M/C. I need to make the turn then drop to 3/16. I don't have the room to reduce before the turn and 5/16 can't bend that fast (not with my bender) any help?

 

I'm in a similar situation with the MC I got from Herm. Luckily, I found some 90* brass elbows that fit the holes in the MC, but they have male fittings on the other end. My thinking is to buy two double female connectors to hook the lines into the elbows. Shouldn't be a problem since they will have already made the turn and would be clear of the bell housing. I haven't installed all of this yet, so keep in mind I can't attest to whether it actually works. Anyway, the elbows seemed like a good solution for the clearance issue, and they also should solve the inverted flare problem too.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has some other solution that might be better than mine.

 

Google Images is your friend! Do an image search for banjo fitting. They effectively change the connection points at the M/C 90 degrees, in a small space.

 

Rondog the problem is that the M/C has a inverted flange female fitting connection not a threaded hole like on the calipers. My parts guy (not the best) said they don't make a banjo bolt for that fitting. Banjo bolts work by compressing the two copper washers on both sides of that fitting and flares compress the flare tight into the end you can't how can you do both at the same time? I'll search goggle but someone has had to deal with this before (it really is only a problem on the rear discs) what is their solution. Blue comet I have been looking for the male-female brass fitting I might have over looked your solution I'll try that avenue again thanks all. Also is everyone putting that 2lb in line residual valve in.

 

Does Herm's MC have built in residual valves? If not, you'll need to plumb in a 2# residual valve for discs and/or a 10# res.valve for drums. If you're running 3/16 line get an adapter for the MC. You can probably get one at a FLAPS. If not try inline tube http://www.inlinetube.com/ they should have it.:v6:

 

http://www.performanceplumbing.com/Master_Cylinder.html

 

Clay,
Glad to see someone else is scratching their head on the same problems I am at the same time! This is a picture of the MC I got from Herm and his banjo bolts,they make the turn you speak of for you. I still have the 5/16th to 3/16th problem and am headed out the door to find an adapter now.
Lots of cutting on this project for me on my 3A, it it quite a tight fit. I don't know anything about residual valves, do tell? Do you plan on using a remote resivoir? it's going to be a royal PITA to get down to this thing to fill it!

 

Godevil do me a favor and look inside the threaded female on the m/c. mine looks to be a inverted flange or am I seeing it wrong? How does a banjo bolt work on that?

 

Godevil, may I make a suggestion, remove your brake switch from the bottom of the MC and place it in the front or rear lines tucked up in the frame, this will keep it out of the way of limbs and stuff that can rip the wires loose. just plug your hole with an NPT fitting. You have to use residual pressure valves when the MC is lower than the brake lines or when they are at roughly the same hight, it keeps the fluid from draining back into the MC and keeps you from having to pump the brakes once or twice to get them to work good. You use a 10lb valve for drums, and a 2lb one for disk brakes. If you have 4 wheel drums you must use 1 for the rear and 1 for the front.

 

Godevil I'm working from the rear forward so I'll tell you how I solved problems as you help me hopefully. I drilled 9/16 holes in 1/8 steel and welded those plales in positions to accept the other end of lines to rear brakes and also for the drop from the frame to rear end. I also recomend a line bender and flange tool for making lines.

 

Clay,
The actual "bolt" part of the "Banjo" is tapered to seat into the MC. Hope this pic helps.


Mcruff,
you mean I haven't needed to pump my brakes all these years! Whodathunkit?
I am right with you on the switch, working one up now.Thanks for pointing it out, I can use all the help I can get!
Donnie

 

Clay, make sure the bump stops on your frame aren't gonna smash those brake lines! I think they contact the axle right between those spring u-bolts.

But hey, I could be wrong....

 

If that is your rear axle in the second photo, why the flexlines? I can see it with the front, cause of the axle hubs turning from side to side, but a single steel line to each of the slave cylinders on the rear should work, plus you have less connections to make. Or should I go back to school again, cause I missed something?:?

 

Those are disc brake calipers and move side to side every time the brake is applied and released. The soft lines makes sure there is free movement of the caliper without the hard line bending each time and work hardening to the point of fracture or inhibiting the caliper's movement. Makes the brakes much easier to service too. Did the same thing on my '59 CJ-5, Daughter's offset rear, Scout 2 rear in my Race Jeep, and will do the same with the '6. Nickmil

 

I see it now. And if they were still drum, then you would have left them alone, right?R)

 

He's right, the brake lines should be placed behind the axle tubes so that they are reasonably protected.

 

Thanks rondog I'll move them tomorrow to the back. See that 25 ft roll of brake line comes in handy for when I mess up. The rubber flex line is also there at each caliper for changing the brakes when they wear out. I thought about hard lines until I remembered I don't want to disconnect my line and re-bleed every brake change. Thanks Godevil I'll order a pair of those tomorrow from Herm. As far as the reserve reservoir I have not figured out how it connects yet I bought one from Herm. I got all this stuff 1 1/2 years ago I don't think he had the banjo bolt kit then or I just missed it I'll ask how it hooks up when I order the bolts.

 

Well I talked to Herm He said the 2lb residual valve was already in the M/C what I need was a proportioning valve? I thought with 4 wheel disc that was not necessary? Spent time moving rear lines today out of bump stop range. Where do most of you get new bump stops for 2 1/5 lift or will stock ones work? Thanks