F-134 Cylinder liner gone bad. Help?

I have a problem with a relined cylinder in my F-head (1952 M38A1-C). Hope someone has a bright idea. Or even no-so-bright would be welcome.

A full rebuild a while back included a sleeve installed to reline one cylinder. I began having "head gasket" symptoms and eventually pulled the head to find the sleeve has moved downward a few thousandths and is apparently allowing a gasket leak into the water jacket.

Dagnabbit! I can't believe it... the only part of the rebuild I didn't do my self!!!

Do these sleeves have a "stop" or machined step at the bottom as installed, or is it a friction-fit straight bore right on through to the crankcase? In other words, will it keep on slipping further? Or could I maybe somehow try try make it good at the top edge, where it is now? (Like a metal o-ring or something equally insane.)

Any ideas to help me avoid a total teardown? I'll try anything!

(This reminds me of a friend years ago who patched a motorcycle head gasket with a cigarette butt. Got him home! But I want to make a permanent fix.)

Thanks

Pete

 

All the machine shops I've worked for and reputable ones I've dealt with always machined a step in the bottom of cylinder for the sleeve to butt against AND machined the bore for a friction fit. Finally, they would use sleeve retainer (green loc-tite) when installing them. This would do a couple of things, act as a lubricant when installing the sleeve, act as a sealer to eliminate coolant leaks, and keep the sleeve from moving. Probably what happened is as your engine heats up the sleeve expands at a different rate than the rest of the block and is slowly allowing the sleeve to drop in the bore. I'd recommend pulling it down before it drops into the crank. Sorry for the bad news . Nickmil.

 

Thanks all. Trouble is the work was done quite a while ago, so going back to the shop is not workable. Any other ideas?

I just can't stand the thought of having to do an entire rebuild AGAIN.

Thoughts of Bondo have crossed my mind....

...don't try and stop me, I'm a desperate man!

Pete

 

Yeah, thanks Glenn. I can and will be talking to a machine shop. I figured I might have a more intelligent conversation with them if I first enjoyed the benefits of this group's insights.

As I say, the liner has only moved a few thou's so far. I ought to pull the pan and see if there is a stop at the crankcase end, and if it has reached it. But I'd think I'd have noticed any gap when I did the rebuild; probably a straight bore. It was years ago, memory fades.

Probably I will have to resign myself to getting a box of 'gumption' and a new roll of 'round tu-its' and make a project out of doing the engine rebuild over. I've done before, I can do it again. Maybe next winter. I can drive the '57 CJ5 this summer.

I would prefer to keep the original engine, for authenticity, however I do have a good rebuilt F-134 engine from a 1950 FWD pickup which I could use. Anyone know, would swapping over the military accessories (starter, flywheel, waterpump, etc) onto that block create any particular problems?

Thanks.

Pete

 

From a machinist point of view, no decent individual would ever sleeve a block without a shoulder on the sleeve, the shoulder would be on the head end not the bottom, as the bottom wouldn't do anything. If on the head end the shoulder is sandwiched between the block and head when assembled. It is possible though that the shoulder was thinner than the counterbore in the block and that the liner slid down and still hasn't hit the shoulder below it, the problem with this is the head gasket and sealling. You generally deck a block or plane the block after installing a sleeve and pressing it till it bottoms out to make sure it is flat so the head gasket seals.

 

More great info! Mcgruff, I hadn't pictured it stepped that way, but makes good sense. I learn something every day. Thanks, it will save me some wasted effort.

Pete

 

This would depend on the engine being worked on but frequently we would step the bottom of the bore when the cylinder was being cut for the sleeve so the sleeve simply couldn't go any farther down. The sleeve couldn't come back up because as you noted the sleeve is sandwiched be the block and head. We then would cut the top of the sleeve down close to the deck then rough bore the block. We'd then deck the block and finish bore the cylinder with a power hone. We had Rottler's, Sunnen CK-10's, etc. This worked very well with never a failure. This way we didn't have as much an issue with cutting into water jackets and what not on the deck by stepping the top of the block and the sleeve. "Most" engines have enough material hanging down below the piston skirt and ring travel to do this, although there are some that don't. Don't know that it's the "best" way, but certainly worked well for all the engines we built including some very high performance drag, circle track, boat racing, and Harley motors. Nickmil.