yet another starter question F134

OK guys I will start from the top, mines a 55 cj5 starter would engage and start about half the time, when it does not start there is no grinding or noise other than the starter/bendix hitting, when it does engage it stays engaged and works perfectly, I pulled it and looked at the flywheel ring gear, looks fine, replaced solinoid, no help, tore starter down and replaced the bendix and cleaned up the armature and contacts, all this changed nothing, still perfect cranking half the time, I pulled the starter again and checked the ring gear again, still OK, I take the starter to a very reliable starter shop and the guy looks at it and says its not a Willys starter but somebody went to alot of trouble to build it, its a delco starter with the solinoid on top (key switch) same old solinoid as any modern chevy, the nosecone is Willys 134F and the bendix is average chevy. I wish I could post a pic but cant, but picture a 71 chevy pickup starter with a 134F nose cone, is this the correct starter? a conversion someone is familar with? or a good idea that did not work as designed? now remember this thing does not grind so I believe the tooth count to be correct, and the wear pattern on the old bendix is fine (no chewed ends) and its perfect half the time. any thoughts? thanks Vic

 

Blev's wouldnt mismatched starter/flywheel teeth make some pretty ugly noise?...........Vic

 

Can you hot wire it? By that I mean jump it at the starter. I'm thinking switch.

 

New switch and wiring......thanks

 

Blev's, I'll count em to rule out the possibility, do you happen to know the correct drive gear count that corresponds with the flywheel count? thanks......Vic

 

FYI
there is a 12 volt delco starter listed for the F4, Delco # 1107746
as well as a 6 volt version, Delco # 1108077
both use the identical starter drive
any Delco numbers stamped into yours ?
can you extend the drive, remount the starter, and see what contact the starter drive is making with the flywheel ring gear ?

 

The only way I can think of to extend the drive is to machine the the valley for the retainer ring forward a little to give a little more stroke distance, but I think your on the right track, I was also thinking about increasing pressure on the drive gear by streaching the spring in the solinoid because it does act like it might not have enough pressure to force the drive gear teeth into the ring gear unless it pretty much lined up and thats why it might be perfect 50% of the time, this has to be a correct delco starter, Im thinking my starter guy just assumed all old willys are 6 volt foot starters, anyway have you got any old tricks to extend the "bite" of the drive gear or increase the pressure?, the wear pattern on the old drive gear looked perfect in my opinion, I have dealt with mismatched drive gears\and ring gears and this does not behave like that..........Vic

 

Have you pulled the starter and bench tested it? Is it spinning? If it spins sometimes and not others it could have a dead spot on the comutator.
Normally I just replace starters and I get new if they are available because rebuilts sometimes still have problems. My brand new switch doesn't work all the time so I wouldn't just assume it is good. Jump 12 volts to the starter if it is in and check for 12 volts getting there.
If it is spinning and not engaging then it depends on if you have a bendix (centrifical) or solenoid (electrical).

 

X2
cheap fix that requires flywheel removal.

 

Greg and Howard,


Greg, I have bench tested it and its working fine on the bench, everytime, the key switch is working (causing the starter to throw the drive and spins) I am convinced its an engagement issue. I normally would just chunk it and get another one, but before I do, I will find out whats wrong, this is the kind of thing that really gets under my skin,

Howard, you could be right about the worn teeth on the ring gear, but in past experience the starter would grind a little till it passes the bad spot and presents the "good" teeth, this has no grind to it at any time,it engages half the time and works fine and the other half it does not. but Im about to jerk the engine and find out, I dont think there could be any other reason,when I looked at the teeth through the starter hole I would only see good gears maybe its "hiding" the bad ones, Im going to pull the starter again and rotate the engine 360 and look at all of them.


thanks.............Vic

 

hitting what ?
or do you mean the starter drive is kicking out, but not engaging the ring gear ?

some more research shows that there are different length nose cones as well, at least different part numbers.
I wonder if your nose cone is not correct ?
does the starter shaft fit all the way into the nose cone (all the way through the bushing to the rear) or does it stop short ?

If this fails to turn up anything, you might look for a longer length starter drive, as length/reach seems to be the problem.
If the tooth count/match was off, severe noise/engagement problems would occur; you don't report this problem

 

Jim, exactly, kicking out and not engaging is the best description, the shaft seemed to fit properly into the bushing, given the o ring and collar that secures the starter drive how can a fella get a longer drive? it seems to me this o ring and collar will limit any travel gained by a longer drive gear? thanks Vic

 

I was just thinking out loud
I know of no other way to move the starter closer to the ring gear
surface/grind down the mounting surface of the nose ?
interesting problem you have there

 

I have put a grinder on a bunch of chebbies to make them work but Im not going to grind this one, Im off the rest of the week and Im sure by monday I will have a handle on it one way or another, but I do appreciate all the input, sometimes all you need is another perspective to figure something simple out...............Vic


p.s how long have you been in Riverside?

 

46 years, 3 months, 6 days
good luck with the starter
let us know what happens

 

I used to swim in Horseshoe lake as a kid, used to jump off that old pipe, boy that thing was nasty, that was about 1970... thanks........Vic