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The 25+ Year Prolonged Build Of A "cj-2a"

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Fireball, Jan 13, 2023.

  1. Jan 14, 2023
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
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    2,018
    dozerjim, Fireball and ITLKSEZ like this.
  2. Jan 14, 2023
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
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    Feb 9, 2018
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    4,513
    47v6 and garage gnome like this.
  3. Jan 14, 2023
    timsresort

    timsresort Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    South Lake Tahoe CA
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2014
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    925
    Looks like a fun and well thought out project. I have at times wondered if my builds were deviating from the spirit of early jeeps on this forum. As much as we all like a good stock jeep, we also like to modify, in my case so I can participate halfway comfortably in the runs we like to do. It boils down to a means to an end- getting to the really remote camping spot, on the very challenging trail. Anyway, I'm happy to see others thinking Dana 60, power steering, lockers, 35's, etc, and it is by no means the only way to go, just one way to go, and it keeps this forum diverse.
     
    73 cj5, vtxtasy, 47v6 and 3 others like this.
  4. Jan 14, 2023
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
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    3,889
    Well there was a recent post on one of those other "Jeep" forums of some guy wondering if a go devil and the rest of the 2A stock drivetrain would work with 35's:whistle::whistle::whistle: The definition of "work" appears insufficient. If Thelma and Louise is the desired mode, then the obvious answer is yes.
     
    vtxtasy, Fireball and Stakebed like this.
  5. Jan 14, 2023
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
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    3,889
    I have to ask Roy, will you be satisfied long term with the 225 in this???? Sure it will work but as you are well aware, a healthy additional dose of torque just makes everything work a LOT better. With the wheelbase extension, shouldn't be difficult to fit what ever you want in there. If you want something stockish, the Buick 350 would be perfect and no additional parts required.
     
    FinoCJ, vtxtasy and 47v6 like this.
  6. Jan 14, 2023
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    USA
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    Oct 25, 2006
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    5,576
    I love the Buick 225. I think its an amazing jeep engine... But the last one rolled out in a jeep in 1971, 52 years ago. That equivalent year then compared to today is 1919. Think about that.

    So many of us are trying to fuel inject these old engines and thats really cool, but at what point in time does it become folly when there are so many awesome power options available like this 4 cylinder LS headed engine?

    The idea that some of us have put VW TDI engines in jeeps is quite amazing.

    Remember when these early CJ's were modified, they used contemporary engines of their day. To put in the most modern power plant is exactly in line with what these men did 50+ years ago when they found that wrecked CJ5 with the 225 and stuffed it into their flat fender with the worn out Lhead.
     
  7. Jan 14, 2023
    73 cj5

    73 cj5 Not ready for the junkyard yet

    Clinton, Mississippi
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
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    2,018
    I'll say this and be done so I'm not clogging up a fresh thread full of needless banter.

    Folks can build whatever they desire and you don't have to like it. Not every Jeep build needs a V8 or V6 with tons, 40s, full hydro, coil overs, etc.

    The point of the hobby is to have a good time and if something doesn't work, tear it apart and try and try again until it does what you need it to do. (y)
     
  8. Jan 14, 2023
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
    Messages:
    12,385
    It’s his Jeep. Let him build it the way he wants to.

    Personally I think it’s a cool project and the 225 is a great engine in a Flatfender. Fits nice and is a good balance of torque and hp without overtaxing running gear. If the engine needed a complete overhaul might rethink it but if in good shape it’s a good engine.

    If it’s any consolation I started my CJ-6 project about 25 years ago, but like you life got in the way. Hope to get back on it in about a year, as soon as the CJ-5 rebuild is done.
     
    dozerjim, Fireball, Frogfarm and 2 others like this.
  9. Jan 14, 2023
    Jw60

    Jw60 It's not flat, it's aired down. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Apr 8, 2008
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    3,275
    Step 1 put it together.
    Step 2 finish putting it together.

    If I had a 225 i'ld run a 225. Most everything discussed will be an easy swap from there.
    I'ld personally run a motor with good parts availability.

    Seems we ran out of popcorn and root beer for a minute.
    :watch::beer:
     
  10. Jan 14, 2023
    Stakebed

    Stakebed Member

    Lake Co....
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2022
    Messages:
    406
    WHAT!!?
    I thought point of the hobby was to impress our peers? No? I've been wrong all this time!!?
    Sigh, so much money...so much time.:banghead: :whistle:
     
  11. Jan 14, 2023
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
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    4,513
    I've thought pretty hard about that. I do have an extra Buick 350 (that needs a rod and crankshaft due to a spun bearing) and I love the 350 in the '71. The reasons I've decided not to put a 350 in this:
    • The 350 has a higher deck height that would be hard to fit under an uncut flatfender hood. I really want a stock hood on this.
    • The higher deck height makes it harder to fit a power brake booster
    • I really want a decent length rear driveshaft since I'm hoping to have lots of suspension travel and a V6 allows me to move the engine/transmission forward a few inches where a V8 won't
    • I want to keep this Jeep as light as possible and a V6 is lighter. (Of course it will still be somewhat heavy with cage, heavy axles, and truck transmission)
    • With a 107:1 crawl gear, I don't need the V8 torque as much as I do in the '71 with the 58:1 crawl gear
    • While the V8 has more power, I've never really felt my V6 Jeeps lack of power for Jeep use even cruising down the highway
    I figure I'll use the 225 because I have it, I like them, and it packages well. If it turns out to be underpowered and I don't like it, it's easy to swap in a 4.3.

    If I really like the Jeep and am using the pants off it, I could justify the money to put an all aluminum Chevy LV3 4.3l. Light weight, 285hp, 305 ft-lb torque stock. By the time you buy an engine, a harness, a flywheel, pilot bearing, and have the ECU flashed to remove the auto transmission stuff you're looking at close to $4000 into it. I think a Ford Ecoboost 2.3l 4 cylinder would be a great engine too but also expensive by the time you get everything you need and then you have packaging issues trying to fit an intercooler somewhere.

    Really, I want to build this on the cheap and simple to start. If I actually finish it and use it, I can change things from there.

    I'm still deciding if I want to position the drivetrain with a future V8 in mind, but I think I'm going to build for V6 only and move things forward. An LV3 V6 will save me if I need more power.
     
  12. Jan 14, 2023
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
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    4,513
    Like you, I've got stock Jeeps to go along with the modified ones. I like that this forum is a good home for all of them. Realistically the most interesting build threads are the modified Jeeps.

    Your Rubicon Jeeps are part of the inspiration for this one. ...along with Kyle's CJ5, ITLKSEZ's Varg, and tymbom's M38 Seabee M38A1 Build (I love how that thing sits low on big tires).
     
  13. Jan 15, 2023
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
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    12,385
    AMEN!!
     
    Fireball likes this.
  14. Jan 15, 2023
    dozerjim

    dozerjim Member 2021 Sponsor

    western New York
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
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    795
    It's really cool to see the different ideas and reasons for all these builds....and watch them come together and make some noise :beer:.....:watch:
     
    Fireball, timsresort and Ol Fogie like this.
  15. Jan 15, 2023
    47v6

    47v6 junk wrecker! 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    USA
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    Buick/jeep 225 odd fire V6 is 160 HP/ 236lb-ft tq

    My present L35 GM 4.3 in my 2A at 180-200 HP/ 250Lb-ft tq it was made from 96-2002

    This is the GM LU3 engine that is the next gen after my 4.3 with 195 hp 260Lb-ft tq
    https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lu3/

    This is the GM LV3 engine mentioned above at 380 lbs /285 or 297 HP with 305 or 330 lb-ft tq. 2014 and up
    https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/lv3/

    I had the 225 in my 2A. Its was a great engine for power and weight until I sucked in some air cleaner fasteners and wrecked the engine. I slapped it back together and ran it for a while. I loved the weirdness of the engine, installing the HEI/ the Offy intake and the Holly 4 barrel carb... But it ran bad after it injected the fasteners and needed a lot of machine work.

    In order to get this all under there hood I had to make a 1.5" body lift. With that I was able to get it all under the hood and not even cut the hood seam. There is about 1/2" of room between the brake booster and the valve cover with swinging pedal assembly /booster/hydrailic master from a YJ. Get the YJ assembly with the mechanical brake switch if thats the route you take.

    I replaced that engine with a GM L35 4.3 from a running 2000 GMC safari van. 500 bucks for the whole running and driving van.

    The L35 4.3 TALLER than the 225 and weighs more. It has native FI and a computer that needs flashed to make it run right without an auto transmission. I opted for Howells wiring harness and would most likely buy a harness that is manufactured by a reputable company to install this engine or any newer ones. This engine also has a pan thats aluminum. It hangs a bit lower than the 225. This engine has issues with the injectors and assume they are bad if anyone gets this engine. Just replace them before you do anything. The new ones are the same as the LS ones but 2 less.. Even if they are the upgraded, assume they are bad and replace.

    This engine presents a bit larger challenge to fitting it all under the hood with a brake booster, but I was able to do it without too much difficulty. If you have issue with a booster fitting, these engines come with hydro boost that runs off the PS pump and that will all fit with a bit of engineering.

    To do the L35 swap again, I would totally do it.. But with the LV3, lighter with lots more power.... I never needed more power from my 225, just a bit more reliability and FI.

    4K wont even pay for the machine work and parts to rebuild a 225.
     
    vtxtasy, Fireball, Stakebed and 2 others like this.
  16. Jan 15, 2023
    timsresort

    timsresort Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    South Lake Tahoe CA
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    Jan 22, 2014
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    925
    I was thinking more like $2500, but I could be way behind with today's prices. Buddy of mine went to Pick and Pull Friday for 40% off day, sawzalls and impacts, grabbed an LM7 5.3, separate aluminum heads and intake, all wiring, ECM, gas pedal for $600. That makes me think.
    [​IMG]
     
    Rich M., 47v6, Fireball and 4 others like this.
  17. Jan 15, 2023
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Liberty Lake, WA
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
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    6,384
    There’s plenty of empty space under the firewall… :sneak:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2023
    Norcal69, Rich M., blalp! and 2 others like this.
  18. Jan 16, 2023
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
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    4,513
    I really have nothing to add to this thread at the moment, but here's a picture of the Jeep from Today:
    [​IMG]
    Nice eh?

    And here's a better picture of the D60:
    [​IMG]
     
    timsresort, blalp!, Stakebed and 5 others like this.
  19. Jan 16, 2023
    garage gnome

    garage gnome ECJ5 welder 2021 Sponsor

    Western MA
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    Jun 19, 2009
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    2,865
    I'm interested in seeing the axle upgrade.
     
  20. Jan 16, 2023
    bluesmokemonster

    bluesmokemonster blue-smokemonster or bluesmoke-monster?

    Gold Beach, OR
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    57
    The project as is sits looks daunting at the least. Someone once told me, "break it down, focus on one area at a time". I'm sure your not overwhelmed but it may help you get more enthusiastic.
     
    blalp!, Stakebed and Fireball like this.
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