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Fino's 58 Wagon

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Nov 15, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    The inside of the front fenders were filthy, greasy, rusty and kind of ugly - they still have some of the original red/maroon color, but they also had some grey paint sprayed on the top of the fenders. Both fenders had a bit of rust pitting developing, and the passenger fender had an ugly mess of battery acid leakage and corrosion under where the battery had been relocated that ate away all the paint. Since I repainted the firewall, figured it was time to paint these to match before they go back on. There is a part of me that kind of didn't want to cover up the original red and to leave it as homage to its origins, as well as the sort of 'it may look a bit rough, but what really matters is how it runs' theme. The driver side would probably have been fine to leave as was, but the passenger side needed to be redone completely.

    None of this is a quality paint job - just a good soapy hose and brush cleaning, a little sanding and scuffing and some rattle can, nothing more. The exterior paint isn't quality, and the underside and overlapping mounting surfaces aren't the best, but just cleaned up and will use as is - maybe one day it will get proper body work. This is just enough to make the engine compartment look reasonable (maybe). When I painted the firewall, I ended up with a paint that is too 'silvery' and light - I kind of wanted it to be just a bit darker grey, but once the firewall was done, then these need to match. Anything is better than what was there....

    The fenders after a good soapy cleaning:
    [​IMG]

    After painting....it was supposed to be a perfect warm day today with sun and no wind...but its cloudy and windy which isn't helping the painting, but at least its warm:
    [​IMG]

    Its starting to come together - most of the engine wiring and plumbing is all done...with the engine a few inches further forward that the previous one, absolutely everything in terms of old hoses and wiring etc is all just a bit short....but replacing almost everything with new stuff anyway.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
    Twin2, Jw60, Rich M. and 4 others like this.
  2. Nov 15, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Another item checked off the list....with the new PS mounting and engine location etc, I needed a new power steering hose as the old one was way too long, and I also needed to shorten and re-bend the hard line on the pump end (not to mention it seemed to want to kink more than bend when I was messing with it). It was a bit of an adventure - got to see some of Denver that I had never seen before - but found a local shop that makes hydraulic hoses etc. I don't think they usually custom bend hard line for customers - mostly just re-use the existing stuff - but the old timer was kind of interested in my project and decided to spend a bit of extra time working out some solutions. I think I paid a bit dear price ($80 for some hose, 2 fittings and some custom modification), but considering I hadn't had much luck elsewhere, and I walked in and 30 min later I walked out with exactly what I needed, and had helpful service with some expertise and concern to help me out with a bit of custom work, it was a good deal.

    So if anyone needs some custom hydraulic lines done in the front range of Colo (they also do all sorts of brake lines, air lines etc), check out Whistler Bearing (Whisler Bearing Co.). Next time, I'll know to get the fittings and straight hard line from them first, and then take it home to bend exactly how I want (although its pretty large diameter line and not so easy to bend), and then return to the shop with the measurement for length of hose needed, and clocking of fittings.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
  3. Nov 15, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Perfectly Within Tolerance 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Sedalia MO.
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    Doing good!
    Something that might feel good is to get a paint marker from the craft section and draw the line from bolt to nut as you torque everything up.
    You know it's done up and you know if it has walked around.

    I'm also the guy that torques one bolt three or four times but misses the next one.
     
    FinoCJ, Ol Fogie and Fireball like this.
  4. Nov 16, 2021
    colojeepguy

    colojeepguy Colorado Springs

    At the foot of...
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    Whisler is in Colorado Springs too, I've dealt with them a lot over the years, both for my own stuff and work stuff. You won't get the best deal there but the staff is knowledgeable and they have every fitting known to man!
     
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  5. Nov 16, 2021
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb 2020 Sponsor

    Jasper Georgia
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    Very good idea. I will come back the next day and recheck every thing to make sure I haven't missed one.
     
  6. Nov 16, 2021
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb 2020 Sponsor

    Jasper Georgia
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    Yeah, service is worth the cost when you go in the store and there are people who are on the spot with knowledge to help sort out problems and supply a solution. Then provide good quality products.
    These kind of businesses always get my money even though I may pay somewhat more.
     
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  7. Nov 16, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Saw that... apparently they also have a store in rapid city, SD for those in the area.
     
  8. Nov 16, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Just a little progress today...4 new ujoints into the driveshafts.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Nov 18, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Is there any pic to represent many hours upside down, in and out of the cab, under and around the jeep on all sides getting the wiring all in place? Maybe no more wires hanging from under the dash? Its not super pretty up under there, but since I didn't start from scratch, I sort of letting some of it be as it was, although I cleaned up a little bit of it, especially around the ignition switch and headlight switch. Mostly there were a few 'add-in' wires to get power for other things, so I removed those, added an ACC post on the firewall to connect that stuff to. Everything under the dash is still running inline fuses, but at some point, I'd like to set up 2 fuse boxes (Batt and ACC) like I did the in cj...but this will work for now. The column used the GM style flat 'harmonica' connector for the turn signals, hazards, horn, but its pretty simple as there is no ignition switch in the column - I moved that to the dash awhile ago. The only thing that was a bit goofy, and I didn't change it, was there are two separate circuits for the turn signals and hazards - each circuit with its own flasher canister....In the end, I decided it was nice and simple, and I could power the signals with ACC and the hazards with Batt. I like electrical stuff in terms of getting it organized and clean....but I'd much rather do it upright on the bench!
    [​IMG]

    As for the engine side, that is a lot more from scratch, so really trying to make it clean and neat....ignore the parking brake cable that is not routed yet. The ignition, starter, charging and ground stuff is essentially done. The section of the harness that goes to the exterior accessories (lights and electric fan) will be done once the fender is back on (which is hopefully tomorrow morning).
    [​IMG]

    The flywheel dust cover came in today from 4speed Conversions...fit perfectly....but the 4th bolt that holds it in is hard to get at behind the oil filter, so it may wait until the first oil change after break in...of course, that is the bolt that holds my little bracket for the clutch fork return spring. It will be fine for break-in with just the pedal return spring I think.
    [​IMG]

    Also wanted to switch the primary jets in the qjet back to the OEM 71s...I swapped them down to 69s a couple years ago for the 283, but time to go back up with the 350 application. The carb number indicates its from a 1969 350 with auto (as is the intake) with 71 jets (and that is what I found in it when I got it). Given the primaries also have rods (49B) in them, the size of the jets is maybe less important than in something like the 2g, but definitely don't want it running lean when I get it started up. We'll see how the plugs look after a bit. I also found the accelerator pump cup (which I changed a couple years ago) was torn - nothing likes the ethanol I guess. I ordered a new cup kit from Mikes, and it came with a single lip cup and garter spring whereas I think historically the qjet didn't run a spring - and the previous rebuild kit from Mike's came with the double lip cup (which tore) and no spring. Anyway, a bit of research from Cliffs and Quadrajet Parts also show both cups on their website and suggest the new style with the spring is the best option. Unfortunately, I had a lot of difficulty with the spring not wanting to stay in the new cup...I actually ended up using another cup I had in my collection that is the correct diameter measurements and seems to hold the spring in....arghhh, stupid fiddly stuff shouldn't be this difficult (seems like just low quality parts) that can cause bigger issues. I wanted a new A-pump with cup and all to install as one, but neither Mike's nor Quadrajet parts had one....If Cliffs has one, I'll order one for the collection. If it gives me any trouble, its coming off for more work right off the bat.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Nov 18, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Before putting the fenders on, kind of getting done any stuff that might be easier to access or do with them off...been thinking about the spark plugs and header clearance. I would generally just run the standard Delco plug (R45TS), but with the block hugger headers, its a bit tight. I think it would work, but I also am testing out some shorty plugs - seems accel is the standard shorty ('peanut') plug that you can find.

    [​IMG]

    I don't have the actual plug wires I ordered yet (hopefully coming tomorrow), but using a random plug wire, you can see the difference in clearance.
    With the delco:
    [​IMG]

    with the shorty accel:
    [​IMG]

    I could probably run either....its really only the 1, 2, 7 and 8 plugs that are a bit tight. In some ways, maybe its as much about ease of install and removal....the delco's require an open ended wrench where as the shorty can use a closed end and possibly a socket....
     
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  11. Nov 18, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Post Falls, ID
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    Those new plugs are going to protrude into the cylinder a little bit more than the old ones. I’m not familiar with the head/piston tolerances on chevys, but it might be something to check.
     
  12. Nov 18, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    I was just looking at that as that upper pic makes it look wrong. I did quite a bit of research to cross-reference the right plugs - the common accel shorty plug that pops up is actually for the earlier heads with different seat and reach. The specs show this is same reach and this is the exact replacement for the mid 70s 993 heads....Looking in closer person, it seems the number of threads is different, but the reach is exactly the same from the seat to the tip....I think its sort of an optical illusion from how the section is threaded or that its hard to see the seat.....
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Nov 18, 2021
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

    Post Falls, ID
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    (y) Crazy illusion!

    When I was a kid, I couldn’t figure out why my dirt bike wouldn’t turn over after I changed the plug. Mistakes make the best learning experiences.
     
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  14. Nov 18, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    It is...as soon as I posted that pic I went Oh, Sh** and ran out to look closer....

    I bet a lot of old sbc's run the 'wrong' plugs....it easy to get the wrong plug on the standard aftermarket sights like Summit and Speedway etc, and a lot of sbc stuff cross-referenced to different years and versions as people build them many different ways. There was a change in seat type first, and then also a change in reach at some point. As I am using the less desired large chamber heads, the plugs that are right are less common than for some of the earlier, high performing heads - so they don't pop up on the site searches quite as readily. I guess for many, if you are building a fairly stock sbc, the clearances are not so tight that its going to cause a damage issue, but performance wouldn't be ideal - especially if you ran too short a reach and shrouded the plug even more. Its also tricky for me as I have a 78 block, mid 70s heads, and 69 intake and carb....Like many, I have a 'spec' sheet that is taped to the computer with all the original serial numbers for the engine, and then all the part numbers I am using so I can replace them more easily. Also trying to list some of the possible cross-references to other brands, especially the OEM delco numbers.

    I don't know if I love accel products - for some reason I've always assume you pay extra for the name but nothing more other than maybe some bright yellow color - and I don't know if these plugs 'perform' better, but the fact you can use a socket on them for all 8 plugs is worth something, whereas with the standard plugs, 4 of them are difficult - and it would only be more difficult once the fenders and everything else is in limiting access even more.
     
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  15. Nov 18, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Fenders are on....made a simple little mount for the brake reservoirs...the top portion of the reservoir can be spun around to face outward which I may do - still playing with it a bit. If the weather is nice and warm tomorrow, get some paint on it and will need to run the hoses down to the MC. Is there any special hose needed for brake fluid? The hoses I used previously came with the brake MC and bracket kit (from R&P) and are Gates Plant 200 psi. I Also have the same question about the low pressure PS return line as well. Can I use normal rubber hose or fuel rated hose, or higher pressure fuel hose, or something different?
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Nov 18, 2021
    Jw60

    Jw60 Perfectly Within Tolerance 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    The hose liner varies with the fluid. Would you be able to use the flex hose for the ends and run hard metal line for the rest.
     
  17. Nov 18, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Looks like standard EPDM hose is good for brake fluid and the low pressure PS return line....but NOT fuel rated hose nor hydraulic hose. Good to remember.
    sure one could....but I am not going to all that trouble to get 6" of hard line between the reservoir and MC where there is no pressure anyway....I don't particularly like this willwood MC set-up with all the modular, interchangeable plastic reservoirs and mounts as its leaky. Its basically this MC,
    [​IMG]

    with this remote res add-on...
    [​IMG]

    the hose itself isn't really a concern to me, but all the plastic inlet to the MC is leaky, and the reservoir to mounting bracket/nipple is also leaky - basically anywhere those 2 wire hose clamps are needed to fit all the plastic junk together is leaky. The hose connections on the nipples are not leaky. Considering all the plastic in this set-up, I am not worried about a bit of rubber line.
     
  18. Nov 20, 2021
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
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    I didn't have much luck with Wilwood's reservoir clamps either. On my 3B clutch, I ended up machining my own reservoir base incorporating two silicone o-rings and a regular stainless hose clamp.
     
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  19. Nov 20, 2021
    3b a runnin

    3b a runnin Active Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

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    mine leaked also
     
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  20. Nov 22, 2021
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Denver, CO
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    Getting so close....sorry the plug wires are a bit a mess for the photos, but will get those cleaned up just a bit....
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    All the wiring is done except for the headlight connection on the front driver fender - but haven't tested anything. I ended up redoing some more of the old wiring, and replacing all primary wire etc...I added a large primary wire from the alt to a post you can see on the driver inner fender. From this post I was able to make a few different circuits to help keep to current flow reasonable low through any circuit. The post is +12V (BATT) and also creates a cleaner place to connect relay circuit into like the electric fan and future stuff like headlight relays and fuse blocks etc. I just decided I didn't want any issues with too much current through old wires in some places - and since I don't have any relay for the headlights, I wired it into its own circuit so to minimize dimming issues. All Acc power is on its on circuit as well. Spent a bunch (way too much) time working on a gas pedal riser bracket as well as modifying the throttle pivot/torque bar as well as the throttle rod to the carb. When I got it, there wasn't enough room for the throttle to pull back far enough to open the secondaries fully and keep the pedal position reasonable to drive. Its still not perfect, and if any carpet or anything is added, it probably won't fully open the secondaries. In the long run, a more formal solution for the gas pedal will probably be needed as there is also the tight squeeze of space between the brake pedal and the transmission. I will probably try to integrate a heel rest or block into the transmission tunnel cover as well as modify the pedal mount moving it a bit up and passenger side....
    Jen leaves town today for T-giving holiday family stuff....I stay and finish the Willys....gotta have priorities....but I need her help to get the hood mounted before she leaves.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2021
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