Another Clutch Question

I cannot get my new clutch/fork/TObearing to work properly after installing the transmission and tcase back in. It won't disengage when the clutch pedal is pushed in. I put the same 58" cable with a back in with the adjuster nut just as it was (pre-marked it). I figured it might need a tweek (loosened/lengthed) with the new clutch disk, but it would be a good starting point. Its not even close - nothing happens with clutch in. I shortened the adjuster nut until it bottomed out (somewhere around 1.5 inches shorter) and still nothing. Might have been just beginning to disengage the clutch - but certainly no shifting into gear.

It seems so far out whack from where it started that I think something else is wrong. FWIW, the clutch cable is quite new (couple years old from when I broke the original one) and was exact replacement and worked fine. The pedal feels like I am making contact with the pressure plate right from the start. I know there has been some threads over the past year or so with similar issues. I don't know what brand the old clutch was, but the new one is from LUK (part number 01-029) as ordered from Rock Auto - seemed identical when I got it, but of course its hard to tell now unless I un-install everything. I didn't get the clutch fork from them - got it from a member on here - and it was identical to the one I took out that had a broken clip that hold the TO bearing.

Any ideas? The thread on the clutch cable goes much farther - should I try to shorten it more? I would have to cut the end of it off so it can go inside the adjuster nut. I don't want to cut my new cable, but I could use the old one that I repaired for emergency spare. But I am also wondering if its something 'inside' - like the fork came off the pivot or the TO bearing came off a clip when installing?

I am about done with this after 4 months - someone want a non-moving jeep?

 

So I stuck my finger in along the back of the clutch fork and I can feel that it is still properly sitting on the pivot with the two little clips. From what I can see through the two tiny little holes in the bellhousing, the bearing seems to move fine when the fork moves. I will have to check my install photos - starting to wonder if I somehow got the clutch in backwards. ...

 

TO bearing is identical. I am trying to move the clutch fork by hand but can't figure out any way to get the leverage/MA I need to actually move it without the pedal.

I also found my clutch install pic - looks correct to me with the flat side toward the engine/FW and the stepped out side with springs towards the transmission. Of course, I did have to remove the clutch/pressure plate once as I forgot to put lubrication in the pilot bearing. Hope I put it back in the same as this pic...

 

I managed a way to pull the clutch fork until it bottomed out against the bellhousing - still no release of the transmission. So that seems to indicate something inside of the bellhousing I guess. I am ready to start pulling everything out - but maybe I'll wait till sat morning and see what people here say.

 

I am just thinking aloud here - but the release bearing contacts the diaphragm fingers about where I would think (just less than 1" of free play in the cable when its at normal length). I then have essentially the full range of motion in the fork and it 'feels' like it always does with it stiff at the beginning and and kind of softening at the very end. IF this is the case, then either the pressure plate is not releasing the clutch disk, or the clutch disk has somehow stuck itself to the flywheel. Or...final idea, is it possible that the pilot bushing is too tight on the input shaft tip and not allowing for rotation. The later two seem unlikely to me - a malfunctioning pressure plate, or somehow the wrong one. Don't really know anyway to address this except to take it apart and look at things closely and compare to the old stuff. There is also still the chance I put the clutch disk in backwards somehow even though my pic indicates it correct.

When I took it apart, part of the original pressure plate diaphragm fingers were broken, the release bearing did not sit properly in the clutch fork due to broken clips, the fork clips that hold it to the pivot were totally broken (literally stuck on the pivot by caked grease and dirt), the clutch disk had some ugly wear, and the input shaft sleeve was damaged - and it shifted fine. Maybe I should break some things and it would work better.

 

I did both originally - couldn't push it by hand or with it running. I tried starting it in gear with clutch in the other day and it lurched and was in gear - didn't start as the brakes were applied. But this got me to thinking about the possibility the clutch disk might be 'stuck' to the flywheel or something like that. I installed the clutch 4mos ago and its been sitting ever since. I think I remember a thread on here with a jeep sitting outside for a long time (years) and the disk kind of rusted or stuck to the flywheel. They managed to break it loose by starting it gear a few times. So I tightened the clutch cable as much as possible, pedal in put in gear and started. Took a couple tries of lurching but then it started and didn't go anywhere. Don't know if it was really stuck to the flywheel or if the pressure plate needed a little 'bump' to free stuff up. You could here grinding the clutch a bit for a second then all good. Reset the clutch cable to proper length, Seems to be working ok in 3 ft garage test in all gears, high and low, 4wd and gear splitter/OD. First gear is tight as hell - other shift ok. I was worried I might have damaged one of the synchronizers when driving in the rear bearing and setting preload without the proper spacer tool and that might be causing those issues...hopefully it will loosen up a bit over time - but it doesn't grind when stationary so it should be ok. Syncho first gear isn't the most important thing...

Its still making a clunking sound that it made before - but the other higher pitched hissing and rattling clutch noises are gone. Whenever the clutch pedal is in, there is a clunking/clacking sound. Could that be a main bearing may be going...it sounds like it comes from right between the back of the engine block and clutch. Like right where the flywheel is. Only occurs with clutch pedal in no matter what the transmission selection is. No sound when clutch pedal is out whether in gear at speed or neutral.

Off to the store to find a snap ring to hold the OD shifter cane on - I had it just the other day. So far that is the only piece I have mis-placed in the project. Then I can test it around the neighborhood. Thanks for ideas fellas - it helps me to think 'aloud' on here sometimes...

 

Went around the neighborhood with no major problems. Makes some funny sounds with the clutch still. At some point soon, I will pull the inspection/dust cover off the front edge of the bellhousing and see if I can see something along the flywheel when the clutch pedal goes in. It starts the instant the release bearing touches the pressure plate diaphragm. Seems like it has to be connected to the bearing in some way.

The clutch pedal seems much softer to push in and out than before - might also be from all the linkage pieces cleaned up and nicely lubricated new parts. The Tera Lows are noticeable - my driveway is not that steep but this is the first time it was ever able to 'walk' up it in low gear with no throttle or clutch.

 

My clutch is working fine in terms of function...but its connected in some way to a bad 'knocking' or 'tapping' noise. I had this noise before I re-did the clutch and transmission/TC rebuild, but now that I got rid of all the bad clutch noises this knocking noise is much more prevalent. I guess I originally didn't isolate the sound and assumed it was related to the rest of the clutch noise as it is directly tied to whenever the clutch pedal is pushed (doesn't have to be pushed all the way in, just lightly pushed such that the TO bearing comes in contact with the pressure plate a bit). But the new clutch is quiet and smooth, and I can really identify the sound is coming from in front of the flywheel - like up inside the back half of the oil pan.

Just because its tied to clutch pedal movement its easy to jump to the idea its the TO bearing or similar...but while its knocking I put my hand on the clutch fork and it does not have any vibration or movement - same with bellhousing. I also removed the front bellhousing dust cover and investigated flywheel and teeth as much as possible both static and while running. I was worried that it could be the ring gear teeth hitting something inside the bellhousing, but the bellhousing doesn't have any vibration either. I even loosened the starter and moved it around to see if it was hitting something, but no solution there either.

So I am worried that its something tied to the engine or crankshaft etc. Is there anything in there that could be making this noise, especially considering its directly tied to clutch movement? With the clutch engaged (pedal out), the engine just hums along smooth and quiet (even for an odd fire). As soon as pedal is pushed...clunk, clunk, clunk... The frequency is tied to engine rpm. I don't have any experience with engine internals...but feel like the next step is to drop the oil pan and just take a look. Something might be obvious (and probably expensive). I do have good rear main seal leak - not sure if that seal could be part of the problem.

Any ideas? Thanks

 

Crankshaft endplay and thrust bearing have been a recurring theme including some local 4x4 club friends. Will start there and check end play...I got a dial indicator for my d18 build so get my money's worth.

 

Yup...no defense except I figured I do it with oil pan removed. Having never done one...guess its a lot easier to remove flywheel and replace seal than do it from the front through the oil pan?