Engine Swap...

Read the Novak site for engine swaps. Very good info here.

Novak Conversions :: Engines

Not saying it is chiseled in stone from mount high, but a lot in that print makes sense.

 

L67? Anyone put one of these in a jeep?
Buick V6 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

There is an old adage that, given enough money, you can swap any engine into any vehicle. That said, my criteria would be:
1) does the engine have a torque curve adequate for my application?
2) will it fit the chassis without resorting to extreme measures?
3) are there off-the-shelf adapters available?
4) what does the present and future parts supply look like?
5) what is the pricing on those parts?

Since I'm an old fart, my first choice will still be the ubiquitous small block Chevy platform which fits all the above criteria well for me. As to sizing, that depends on how much of the original drivetrain you wish to retain. Certainly, the T90/D18/D25/27, and D44 can survive behind the lower displacements, including 265, 283, 305, 307, and 327 (note, I didn't include the 302 here-not a very good bore/stroke combo for the usual Jeep application). Nominal HP ratings aside, anyone even running a 283 in an early CJ can tell you there is a BIG difference between the driveability of a 283 versus the 225 (assuming both are running properly) and that difference only grows with increased displacement. I suspect if there were stats for CJ engine swaps, the sbc would lead by an overwhelming margin, by many thousands.

All that said, I do like the 225/231. It was a great choice by Kaiser in 1965. But I will not be swapping one into anything 50 years later. I will only rebuild one that is already in the vehicle. While you can still find all the parts, their limited availability and cost make Chevy pieces look real attractive.

 

I didn't know the Cyclone had the 4.3 with a turbo. Thanks for the information. 280/360 out of a 6-banger was pretty healthy back then.

 

I probably would be kicking myself, too. Woulda , coulda, shoulda seems to haunt me at times...

 

I would like to move up to a 6-banger, so I do appreciate the information. Some have told me that the T-98 tranny, because of its configuration might be a problem in trying to find an adapter to mate up to it. I get that the input shaft is the issue? Something about how short it is. However, I do know that I can get an adapter from Trans-dapt, or Advance Adapters or someone. I checked and they are available. I saved their email in my Jeep folder on the computer so I can find them again.

I agree with you on the Chevy platform. I had a '58 Bel-Air with a 348 in it, but my friend had a '57 with a 283 and it was impressive. My uncle had a Chriscraft wooden boat with a 283 marine engine inboard, and that little engine was a good piece of equipment. When he fired it off, it sounded much larger.

I also liked the all aluminum 215 c.i. Buick engine, but it had issues with trying to start in the cold Utah winters. Seemed like the aluminum would quench the combustion and it would not fire off.

 

Just as an addition, where as Mcruff's numbers are true for the early years of the 4.3 (non-Vortec), I wanted to add the Vortec years since that is what most people use now.

For the later years the Vortec 4.3 has 200HP or 210 HP depending on year. The V8 is 255HP

On my 1997 4.3 Vortec, I have removed the fuel injection and put on a carb. At dyno days this setup came to 237 HP/287 Torque. And yes those are Net measurements not gross. There is no comparing the Dauntless to a 4.3 in terms of power and acceleration, even with the early engines.

"I don't know that any particular year of the 4.3 is any better than any other"

The Vortecs are light years better than the early years. For starters they come with a full roller setup from the factory, plus the heads are extremely better. The Vortecs come with 200HP and are better designed throughout.

Any year 4.3 can be swapped to carb but you it cost you about $750 to do it. There are advantages to both but the fuel injected is a better running engine. I did swap mine to carb because that was a better option for what I want to do. I have not put the engine in my Jeep yet but I will.

"I am very familiar with the 4.3 engine, but it was underpowered for the 1997 Chevy s-10 I had. The engine was only rated for 175 hp"

Exact engine I have, I mean exact. Mine is a 1997 4.3 - came from the factory at 200 HP. It was a very powerful engine in the Truck it came out of. More powerful than any older model 80's early 90's Chevy V8 truck I ever drove. Mine was on the dyno before and afer the carb swap. 202 HP with fuel injection - 237 HP with the carb.

"as far as the 2.3, I want to say they're right around 100 or 110 HP"

I rate the 2.3 the second best swap you can do and in some cases the best swap. I was going to put a 2.3 in mine, and in fact I have the bellhousing to do it. The engines were good from 90 to 110 but can easily be made to hit 175 HP. There is more than a few running over 250 HP in circle track form and I have seen them over 400 HP in race trim.

 

Very good information!!! Thanks for taking the time...

 

What are you trying to do with your jeep? If you were disappointed with your 1997 4.3 at 175hp, you will most likely not be satisfied with anything less than a v8.
My dauntless equipped as my sig states easily runs down the freeway at 70 and I would be surprised if I had anything close to 175hp.

 

Here is the wiki on the 4.3.General Motors 90° V6 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia There are serious improvements in the later engines.

 

Thanks for the link. Very good information. I looked it over, but I am saving for a closer look later... NOVAK is in Logan, Utah. I was born and raised there and found out that the guy I talked to has a sister who lives a couple of blocks from three of my siblings.

Thanks for the info. It was interesting and informative reading.

Basically, all I am trying to do is get a reliable, fairly easy to swap V-6 engine to put in the Jeep that has enough hp without getting close to redline, to push the vehicle at highway speeds so I don't have to tow it behind my Xterra everywhere I go. I can hit 65 mph with it as it is, but I am around 4000 rpm and pretty well tapped out. Any hills and I would be down to 50 mph in a hurry, I feel...

I can go with a crate engine, as long as I know there is a kit available to make my swap so it's not a "home brew" job. If I can't use the T-98 tranny that I now have, along with the D-18, I can go to a different drive train. I don''t really want to change out axles, diff's and all that, but if I have to put a whole new powertrain in it, I can sell the old one, intact. I have no problem with that. I bought this Jeep, thinking it would be an on-going project, and it may go through many changes. I just want to make sure the end result is going to be worth the effort. I once put a 280z engine and tranny in a 530i BMW, and it was definitely worth the effort. BMW could learn a few things from Nissan.

Later...

 

I would love a diesel, except for the noise. The torque would be the thing, I would think.

 

You do understand that no matter what engine you install, you'll still be at the same RPM's?
You'll need to install an overdrive or change axle ratios, once you have an engine with enough HP to maintain highway speed...

 

So true. I have a T98, overdrive, 225 V6 and 4.88 axles the Jeep does great on the highway.

 

There are some other 4-cylinder possibilities ...

You can buy a new 4.0L GM industrial engine (181 cid), which is the bored version of the venerable 153 cid Chevy II inline 4. Lots of the 153s and 181s have been put into Jeeps. Product Portfolio

There are also Ford industrial engines, though Ford does not tell you much about them other than to direct you to their dealer network. They list a 2.5L OHC 4 that I presume is the Lima engine.

Initially the Pinto engines were popular because some of their bells are shallower than the F134 bell. This allows the use with the T-90 of a fairly inexpensive plate adapter and a sleeve on the bearing retainer. The current Novak adpater has been fancified with the incorporation of the bearing retainer with the plate. Adapting the Ford 2000 & 2300 I4 Engines to the Jeep T90 Transmission

I would check with Novak about using your T-98 with either of these engines.

To me, the obvious route would be to sell the F134 and T-98 complete and use another 4-speed transmission, either the SM420 or SM465 with GM engines or a T-18 or NP465 with the Ford. Then adapt the new transmission to your transfer case.

Another possibility is the AMC 4-cylinder used in Wranglers and XJs. Not as common a swap as the Chevy or Ford, but it has potential Swapping a SM420 into a Wrangler

 

Yes I do understand, but most V-6's have a higher rev limit than a hugely undersquare engine like the 134. The biggest issue with trying to put an overdrive on a 134 is that since the torque curve starts dropping off at 2100 rpm and the hp curve follows fairly close thereafter, the 134 engine doesn't have enough power to take advantage of an overdrive. I already have 4.27 gears in the Jeep, as opposed to the higher gear ratios like the 4.88 and the 5.38's, so an overdrive is not going to gain me a thing without the power to make it work. More power will give me the advantage I need to install an overdrive and make it work.

I agree with Tiimgr, that it might be best to sell the engine, xfer case and tranny intact -- apparently the T-98 tranny is sought after -- according to some in here -- and start fresh. The body, frame, etc., are in excellent condition and I need another project to work on. I will be thinking it over and see what I come up with.

To all, how much would the rebuilt engine, tranny and xfer case be worth -- rough order of magnitude figure?

 

My Jeep has 4.27 gears and the Fhead also and the OD made a huge difference in my Jeep. But I live in Texas in a completely flat area. My Fhead is pepped up a little also.

T18 to V6 4.3 is the best combo if you feel like changing driveshaft lengths and a lot of other little stuff. The 4.3 can bolt right to the T18.

Are you asking how much the rebuilt F134 and that drive train you have are worth? Changes by area but the Fheads sell from $300-800. That transmission is a whole other thing - I am not sure what is would sell for but I know people want them. The transfer case is around $250 unless it is special for that transmisson. My understanding is it is not, it just uses a plate.

For the record you can easily drive the Jeep with 4.27 gears with a 4.3 or the Ford 2.3 and have no OD. Your speed would cap around 65-70 but I would think that would be ok.

For the record, that T18 or SM465 swap is a lot of work. The very reason I am just sticking with my T90

 

Thanks for the info. Did your Jeep come that way, I mean with the T-98 and 225 or did you build it? I have 4.27 gears, so maybe I would be good without an overdrive. I could try it that way and see what happens and then add the overdrive afterwards...

 

Thanks for the data!! The only thing I did to my F134, besides a rebuild was add a low restriction exhaust and a Weber 150 cfm 2-bbl downdraft in place of the old Solex that was on the Jeep. I bought a jetting kit and I have it dialed in now. I had issues at first, but with a jetting manual and a little time, I am very happy with it. The jeep accelerates much more quickly that I expected it would. I have raced a friend of mine with a stock CJ-5 and walked away from him.

What tranny are you running and what did you do to pep up your 134?

 

I know Tim knows that the GM 4 banger is a 3.0l and not a 4.0l. But this is a viable jeep swap motor and is probably the largest displacement gas 4 cylinder of the modern era. I have several now in both 2.5l and 3.0l guise. Because it is native Chevy v8 bellhousing pattern it's a cheap prospect to bolt it in front of a GM transmission. The newer motors (91 and up) use a one piece rear seal and there are some differences between heads whether it's a boat motor or not and you need to get rid of the front sump oil pan.

But as others mentioned, you are still 4000 rpm no matter what motor you run. You can add an overdrive which is the one component solution or you have to change front and rear gearsets to get the engine speed down. Or you can run big tires, but that's another can of worms.