1. Registration trouble? Please use the "Contact Us" link at the bottom right corner of the page and your issue will be resolved.
    Dismiss Notice

spin on oil filter

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by chris423, Dec 15, 2015.

  1. Dec 17, 2015
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    I live South of...
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,732
    I don't know Glen, I thought that all the spin on did that. On the NOS motor I put in my Jeep I drilled and tapped in to the oil pump, and blocked the hole in the gasket, and drilled into the block, ran a line to an fender mount filter and back to the block so all the oil got filtered. The upside down filter is on my old motor that I made Garage Art out of.
     
  2. Dec 17, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,381
    I certainly haven't seen that many different brands of spin on filters, but the ones I have seen will definitely drain oil if turned upside down.
     
  3. Dec 17, 2015
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,838
    "Filters mounted such that oil tends to drain from them usually incorporate an anti-drainback valve to hold oil in the filter after the engine (or other lubrication system) is shut down."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_filter
     
  4. Dec 17, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,381
    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wix-51050
     
  5. Dec 17, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,381
    Link I just posted shows that Wix filter doesn't have an anti-drainback valve. That explains a lot. :)
     
  6. Dec 17, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,381
    I honestly never put much thought into spin on oil filters not draining because I never had one mounted upside down. Now that I dug into a bit of info it all makes much more sense. The ones for the Cummins don't have anti-drainback valves and it's been a while since I even looked at anything other than that or cartridge filters. :)
     
  7. Dec 17, 2015
    Mark Wahlster

    Mark Wahlster Member

    Silverton, OR
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    386
  8. Dec 17, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,381
    So, would the filters you listed replace the 51050 mentioned above?
     
  9. Dec 18, 2015
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    I live South of...
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,732
    Glen, in the picture of the 51050 oil filter picture you can see the small holes on the oil in, that I think is what keeps the oil pressure up by restricting how much oil can go into the filter.
     
  10. Dec 18, 2015
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,838
    Why?
    Interesting, since some carmakers are moving back to cannisters.
     
  11. Dec 18, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,381
    K & N website lists all of the filters they sell for each vehicle/engine....air, oil, fuel, etc. They show a reusable filter and housing, big bucks of course.
     
  12. Dec 18, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,381
    I'm sure it makes a difference, but since we now know why the oil drains out I think you would be wise to get a filter that doesn't drain back.
     
  13. Dec 18, 2015
    45es

    45es Active Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,110
    Glen, you may want to go back and take another look at the link you posted. It certainly does show a anti- drainback valve although their disclaimer may prove you correct.
     
  14. Dec 18, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,381
    Yeah, I went by the description of the filter which says no anti-drainback valve. ;)
     
  15. Dec 18, 2015
    Mark Wahlster

    Mark Wahlster Member

    Silverton, OR
    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    386
    I am Hot Rodding my engine and the spin on filter will lend itself towards that styling better then a Big clunky canister.
    I do not know about interchanging with the Wix filter The numbers I gave are OEM application replacement filters for a Mid to late 1960's 134F equipped with the spin on filter.

    As to the filter being a drain back style or not that is not as I understand this type of oiling system the important part. What is is that the filter is a by pass filter which means if the filter becomes plugged the oil can bypass it on its way to the return in the timing cover. A full flow filter is it becomes blocked will stop the flow of oil through the line. Or so I have been told.

    If you don't want the filter to drain back just turn it right side up and the oil will pool in the cup rather then drain out. Kaiser that made this upgrade to the original style filter decided the filter should drain back into the pan possibly to make sure the oil level in the pan was high enough on start up or for some other reason I can not assume.

    In any case I plan on setting my engine up with on mounted in the area the fuel pump would have taken had I not decided to run a Holley Blue electric fuel pump. I plan on working out a mount that mounts to the front engine plate. I'm waiting to design it until after I have the Header exhaust finished in case I need more room.

    My engine so far

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Dec 19, 2015
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    I live South of...
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,732
    This is just my $.02, from what I see here that everyone is missing, the oil comes up from the oil pump in the middle of the gallery, and goes both ways to oil the crank and rods. The oil line comes off the end of the gallery, after all the crank and rod bearings are oiled. It goes to the filter, and then drains into the timing cover and on the timing gears. On the other end of the gallery is the oil line that feeds the overhead rockers. Howard pointed out that the bearings, if in good shape, take very little of the and most of the oil goes through the filter anyway. So to me it seems that the filter draining down while setting has little or no effect on the rest of the motor.
    Mark that is a beautiful engine you are building nice job.
     
  17. Dec 19, 2015
    PeteL

    PeteL If it wasn't for physics, and law enforcement... 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Hills of NH
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Messages:
    9,838
    The stock system depends upon back-pressure at the filter cannister (by calibrated restriction of the outflow orifice) to create pressure at the bearings. If the filter was empty, it would seem to me that the bearings would be starved until the filter refilled.

    Even in a 'normal' engine, some people think the majority of engine wear happens in those first few seconds before oil pressure builds at each start-up. For comparison and contrast, I've seen high-end accessory electric pumps that pre-pressurize engine oil before starting.
     
  18. Dec 19, 2015
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    12,381
    I totally agree. Until the thread with the upside down filter I never put much thought into the construction of them. A canister with a cartridge filter I knew was designed to retain oil so that's a no brainer. Once I looked at a blowup of a spin on filter with an anti-drainback valve a light came on in my brain. Bottom line just because a filter fits doesn't mean it's ok to use it. One needs to get the correct filter for the application.

    I learned a long time ago that it is also a very good idea to fill filters with oil first before installing them. That helps eliminate that one time possibility of oil starvation. Of course I haven't tried it with the upside down filter setup.
     
  19. Dec 20, 2015
    Rick Whitson

    Rick Whitson Detroit Area 2024 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    I live South of...
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,732
    I don't know anything, I am just guessing, there are lot of Jeeps running around with this set up though, so it must work. My gauge shows oil pressure soon as it starts up. Like I said I took it off the NOS 1952 military motor I put in my Jeep when I restored it, and run a line from the oil pump to a fender mount and back to the block so all the oil goes through the filter.
     
  20. Dec 20, 2015
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,519
    I've removed several of the factory canister filters over the years, from parts JEEPs. Most had been sitting for years........some for many years. They all still had plenty of oil in the cannister when removed. So, if the question is, does the oil drain out of the canister when the engine is turned off, I have to say that it does not. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the conversation/question though.
     
New Posts