Saginaw Power Steering (pics) Please Add Yours!

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by Mcruff, Aug 5, 2005.

  1. Mar 9, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

    Boston, Ma
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    Thanks Rich! Very well put itlksez. I had the entire front end rebuilt about a year ago. Knuckles had rotted gaskets so they were torn down and rebuilt. New HD shackles, BDS springs installed about 4 months ago. The jeep has been inspected by a local old time jeep place and I would imagine if they saw a problem they would be happy to charge me to fix it (kidding - I think they are a solid couple of guys).

    So... from haunting this forum mostly I decided to embark on this steering 'journey'. I had the DW once and I plan on enjoying the jeep more off plow season in summer so would like to clear up that issue. Herm told me that his Ford conversion is the most straight forward. Any photos out of a bare bones saginaw/ford upgrade would be great. Thanks guys - lots to learn. Cheers

    Oh - and great call on the tires! Will also put that on the list...
     
  2. Mar 9, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    Make sure you go to a shop that has a "dynamic" balancer, not just a "static" balancer. This will check the balance of the inside and outside of the tire. If the inside front/outside rear of a tire are heavy, a static balancer will say it's balanced, but a dynamic balancer will require mass weights (opposing each other diagonally) to get the tire to want to run true.
     
  3. Mar 9, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
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    Measure the OD of the shaft and spline.........and then match that up to the dimensions in the Borgeson catalog.......
     
  4. Mar 9, 2017
    dozerjim

    dozerjim Member

    western New York
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    I have done what are you getting ready to do,I got a saginaw box from a left hand drive postal,made things easy as I mounted it the same as on the donor,going to use the shaft and steering wheel,haven't finished it yet but it looks like it should work once I get the ends reversed with goferit bushings.
     
  5. Mar 9, 2017
    Mr Plow

    Mr Plow Member

    Boston, Ma
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    so you are taking the sag all the way to the steering wheel from the donor? Interesting approach.
     
  6. Mar 16, 2017
    MrSimon

    MrSimon New Member

    Glenmoore, PA
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    Mar 15, 2017
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    I'm curious if this ever got answered. I have a good condition box, pump, and lines from a 99 Cherokee just sitting here. Would it be possible to put this into my 67 CJ V6, assuming I could fab up all the necessary brackets, pulleys, shafts, etc etc?

    Also, in some of the pictures in this thread, the pitman arm is pointed toward the front of the vehicle .... and in other pictures, it's pointing towards the back. Can it go either way? Why? Does the type of box dictate the direction? Or does mounting position?
     
  7. Mar 16, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    This.
    It depends on what the box originally came out of, and (generally) whether it was mounted in front of, or behind the axle.

    Regarding your 3- vs. 4-bolt question, as far as I know, the older 3-hole boxes are the same as the 4-hole boxes, just sans the 4th hole. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but some of the newer boxes look like the top mounting hole is more centered above the bottom holes. Don't know for a fact.
     
  8. Mar 17, 2017
    Dawgy

    Dawgy Member

    Decatur,Alabama
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    Aug 11, 2015
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    56
    Just wanted to put this info out there. I looked and looked for the earlier bracket I think Focker has on his Dauntless.
    I had no luck around here at the local junk yards. What I did find was a 1975 Buick Century with a 350 motor.
    [​IMG]
    You can see the top of the bracket is pretty ugly. I cut off the top and had to clearance the center section also due to the extra large distributor.
    [​IMG]
    Also rather than using the one long bolt near the distributor I used two short bolts for clearance.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The belt I used on my 1971 is a Gates 7370.
    Hope this helps.
    Thanks for looking.
    Dawgy
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
    Focker likes this.
  9. Aug 12, 2017
    Desertdave66

    Desertdave66 Member

    Fl
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    Installed sometime around 1980 or so
     
  10. Sep 5, 2017
    Dauntless1971

    Dauntless1971 Member

    Bend, OR
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
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    154
    I know the previous owner loved to weld. Appears he even made his own bracket to hold the power steering pump and smog pump. I just noticed the allen screw and key way on the lower part of the steering shaft. Maybe it is adjustable. That could solve the problem of the rag joint being stretched.
    20170905_180213.jpg 20170905_180240.jpg 20170905_180406.jpg 20170905_180412.jpg 20170905_180527.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2017
  11. Sep 25, 2017
    akrazgpr

    akrazgpr New Member

    Clemmons NC
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2006
    Messages:
    32
    Here's mine!
    IMG_0428.JPG
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    IMG_0433.JPG
    IMG_0434.JPG
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    IMG_0439.JPG
    IMG_3321.JPG
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2017
    Rich M. likes this.
  12. Sep 26, 2017
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash Member Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    Jun 5, 2007
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    131
    Is a rag joint preferred at the steering gear? Seems more stable that U-joints?
     
  13. Sep 26, 2017
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Riverside CA
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    Jul 30, 2003
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    7,471
    You need flex/slippage somewhere between the body and frame.
    I use the bell coupler at the steering box on my Jeep.
     
  14. Nov 2, 2017
    Bajatransit

    Bajatransit New Member

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    I just found this today. I wish I had seen this about a year ago when I started collecting bits and pieces for the saginaw kit. This looks WAAAAY easier than going through the cross member, looks way better (in my opinion) and is pretty cost effective. Won't work with F-Head or 4cyl. I called Herm and he says while no two jeeps are alike, this is pretty much a bolt on kit. Has anyone used this kit? Feedback? Sorry if I missed this in an earlier post.

    Power CJ Conversion Kits | Herm The Overdrive Guy

    Ford Reverse Rotation Gear

    Power CJ Conversion Kits
    V6 Reverse Rotation Ford Power Steering Conversion Kit for CJ Applications



    This kit is designed for the installer to be an easy adaption without any welding or cutting required. This is a bolt in kit. There may be obstacle’s that I am not aware of. If you encounter a problem, give me a call. Includes Mounting Bracket, Bolts, Special Pitman Arm and Instructions – Gearbox not included.
    Re-manufactured power steering gearboxes are available from NAPA. If you’d prefer to obtain your own from a donor vehicle, the following vehicles used the correct reverse pattern. Manual gearboxes, not available from NAPA, are harder to find but were installed on the same applications:

    List of donor vehicles for steering box:
    • Ford Bronco (Fullsize) 1980-1996
    • Ford Bronco II 1984-1990
    • Ford E-Series Van (E-150/250/350) 1982-1996
    • Ford F-Series Truck (F-150/250/350, 2WD & 4WD) 1983-1997
    • Ford Ranger 1980-1997
    • Mazda Trucks (B2300, B4000, Navajo) 1991-1997
    Keep in mind there are exceptions to every rule. If you go to a wrecking yard, be sure the box you purchase is a reverse rotation gearbox. When the steering wheel is turned clockwise, the pitman arm also turns clockwise as viewed from above. Do NOT attempt to reuse the stock pitman arm that comes with the gearbox because the taper for the tie rod is wrong. Serious injury can occur with the incorrect pitman arm. The pitman arm supplied with the kit has the proper taper.

    Our power steering kits will not fit with the stock 4 cylinder engine. The drivers side exhaust manifold on a V-6 requires a rear exit. Our kit will fit with most engine swaps.
     
  15. Nov 2, 2017
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok Sponsor

    Tulsa, OK
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    It has been discussed in this thread and others. Do a search. The conversion does look easier but may cause you to have to relocate your radiator or get a different radiator. I am collecting parts for my PS conversion, I haven't ruled Herm's out yet, but there is a lot less info about it out there than there is for the saginaw and it makes me a little cautious.

    Search Results for Query: herm steering | ECJ5
     
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  16. Nov 3, 2017
    SoCalNickG

    SoCalNickG New Member

    Los Angeles, CA.
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    Mar 17, 2017
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    I am not able to enlarge the thumbnail pictures on these threads. The message that pops up says that I do not have permission.
     
  17. Nov 3, 2017
    Bajatransit

    Bajatransit New Member

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    Thanks for that! I just didn't see much of a discussion of it in this thread. Appreciate the input.
     
  18. Nov 3, 2017
    Focker

    Focker Rust Never Sleeps Staff Member Sponsor

    Tri-Cities WA
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    Fixed
     
  19. Nov 5, 2017
    homersdog

    homersdog Tulsa, Ok Sponsor

    Tulsa, OK
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    Jan 8, 2012
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    Here is a link to a fella that put Herm's kit on a flatty, just FYI.
    Project Flatfender: Steering

    After doing research on his kit on the interweb about other folks experiences with Herm's kit, I can see it has several advantages over a typical Saginaw install.

    My only concern with Herm's kit is how it may cause a clearance issue with the front axle below the pitman arm. I will discuss that with him if I decide to go that way. Maybe someone on here that has installed Herm's kit can share some pictures?
     
  20. Nov 5, 2017
    tarry99

    tarry99 Member Sponsor

    Northern California
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
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    3,138
    Personally...........After what I have seen , I'm not sure there is a Typical Saginaw Install short of just calling the "Norm" a steering gear mounting between the front bumper and front cross member.......as no two installs will be the same , due too many factors like winches, bumpers, radiators, engine type, exhaust, placement of PS pump and steering column shaft obstacles , notwithstanding the installers abilities to understand & lessen these compromises while still not compromising the steering's performance.

    It seems almost daily there are folks asking questions about there lack of steering performance on subjects such as Mounts , Pittman arms, Drag Links , gear box Ratio's , Bump steer ETC. All of which should have been addressed long before you fired up the welder.

    I think having a clean sheet of paper on where your steering box should go geometry wise is far more important than letting the bumper , winch , exhaust or radiator dictate where it has to go............as any system will work as long as you pay attention to it's needs..........
     

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