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Dj-5c Restoration - 3s + 1w

Discussion in 'Intermediate CJ-5/6/7/8' started by Jeff Bromberger, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Oct 24, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    And the saga continues.

    The replacement Left Tie Rod End appeared via UPS today. And it was a party. Until I compared it to the original piece:

    Wrong_Tie_End.jpg

    Pardon the crappy contrast in the photo. The new one is on the left, the original one is on the right. As the jury can plainly see, these are chiral opposites to each other. The new piece has a left hand bend at the top, whereas the one I need has a right hand bend. In other words, this new piece goes back to the shop and I am left, again, with no idea where I can buy a new tie rod end.

    Anybody know of a secret storehouse of obsolete parts for oddball jeeps that has been forgotten about?
     
  2. Oct 24, 2019
    Jw60

    Jw60 Recovering Jeepaholic

    Sedalia MO.
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    Not fun, it must be opposite from the typical cj due to it being a right hand drive.
     
  3. Oct 25, 2019
    45es

    45es Member Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Naches, WA
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  4. Oct 31, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    Quick change of topics - how little do I need to see if an out-of-the-jeep motor runs? For a one minute test case, I know about fuel and air. Can I run without coolant/water pump? How about without alternator? Can I put a switch in between the battery and the coil to take the place of the ignition switch and just use one of those buttons to trip over the starter? How much of the vacuum line architecture needs to be there? Anything else I should look out for?
     
  5. Oct 31, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    You can run for a minute or two without coolant. Take the belt off - don't spin the water pump if there's no coolant in the engine. No need to spin the alternator either.

    Electrically, you need a wire from the battery to the coil (this is the "hot wire"). You can insert the ballast resistor and an on-off switch in that wire if you want. Won't matter for a minute of running.

    For the starter, use any old push button switch and connect an alligator clip to each terminal by whatever wire you have. Put one clip on the the "S" terminal of the solenoid and one to the battery side. Push the button and the engine will crank. As long as there is some very small amount of juice in the battery, once started it will continue to run, till you pull the hot wire off.

    12V Remote Starter Switch

    With an automatic, if it doesn't crank you may need to bypass the neutral safety switch. Be careful - don't get crushed or run over by a car that starts while it's in gear.
     
  6. Nov 1, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    If the engine is not in the chassis, I suggest you make a stand of some kind to hold it upright and motionless before you try to start it. You could take a sturdy pallet, some scrap lumber to hold the engine by the mounts and bell ring, and run the engine with a battery. JMO - it's easier to set the engine into the chassis to hold it.
     
  7. Nov 4, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    Is there an icon when you get to see the first light at the end of the tunnel?

    This weekend, in perfect weather, I was able to complete the entire rear brake assembly on both sides. Everything up to the brake proportioning valve is DONE (including that goofy rubber hose mid-line). Only thing left to do in the rear is to run a new fuel line - the old plastic one has cracked in a million places - and then hang the fuel tank.

    Now, back to the front. Spent over an hour with a torch and hammer, but still unable to remove the kingpins from the front axle/steering knuckle. There is so much play in the top/bottom of the pins, where they ride in the axle, but it's frozen solid to the actual steering knuckle and no matter how much pounding I've done, the key way hasn't even budged. Unless somebody else has a surefire method, I think I am going to pull the axle and take it to a place that specializes in truck axles and see if they can use one of those huge shop presses and punch them out. I am going to guess that no amount of anti-seize will protect the new kingpins from getting stuck, but then again, what are the odds that I'm going to need to replace them in the next 20 years?

    After that, the brake backers go on, the master cylinder gets bench-bled and installed, the lines (front and back) are bled, shoes adjusted, and she's back on her own wheels for the first time in I can't remember when.

    Tim, I am going to follow your advice and wait until the chassis is rolling before dropping the engine in place and then working on it. Without fenders on, it is just as convenient as a engine cradle and it is one less thing I have to build.
     
    ojgrsoi likes this.
  8. Nov 4, 2019
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Sponsor Sponsor

    Omaha NE
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    Good idea taking the straight axle to a shop that has experience working with king pins. Years ago the shop I worked at did all types of repairs but when it came to king pins in older trucks or the like we just pulled the axle and sent it to an old timer that had been replacing king pins for years.
    Glad your making progress!
     
  9. Nov 7, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    And the Powers That Be must be laughing at me...

    I ordered that Crown part mentioned above. It's for the UK/Right Handed Jeeps. And it got here last night. And it will be going back.

    It's the same configuration as the part I tried from rareparts.com, in that it has the right general idea, but the top is bent the wrong direction. I swear it isn't for a right hander, no matter what the catalog says.

    So, now, I am forced to make a decision (of three): a) reinstall the broken part and pray it lasts forever - after all, steering is mostly optional. b) have something custom made for me, although I have no idea where to do that, or how much it may cost. c) bite the proverbial bullet and replace the front axle with the newer variety. That means tossing out all of the front end stuff I have already done (bearings/brakes/tie rod stuff) as well as changing tire size on the front.

    You know, if I was rebuilding a military jeep, also made under government contract, there'd be millions of parts. Why am I not that lucky?
     
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  10. Nov 7, 2019
    Dphillip

    Dphillip Sponsor Sponsor

    Omaha NE
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    Have you tried this company, maybe they have a used one that’s in serviceable condition.

    Postal Jeep Parts
     
  11. Nov 7, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    I know both of the two places that do Postal Jeep parts :) One of them is under 30 minutes from my home, and I've been there a number of times. Great guys, both of them.

    Neither have the part I am looking for in any condition other than heavily used. And that's the way mine is. The whole ball socket is wallowed out, the grease inside is either rock hard or missing, etc. If I didn't take it out, I probably could have just closed my eyes, put my fingers in my ears, loudly sang "la la la!" and let it go. Now, gifted with the knowledge of the true condition, I can't put this old one back in.

    As Dick Dastardly used to say: Drat, Drat and Double Drat!
     
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  12. Nov 8, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member Sponsor

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    Have you looked at hot rod sites? A lot of custom steering used in those.
     
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  13. Nov 8, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Or perhaps a machinist could recondition the part you have? Build it up with weld and machine a new bearing surface? There are talented people out there that are interested in Jeeps - post up some pictures of your problematic part.
     
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  14. Nov 11, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    I found a local hot-rod/customs shop, as suggested above. While they are closed this week, I will drop by next week with both the tie rod end and the axle. Older cars used kingpins, too, so maybe they can get me out of the jam there as well. :)

    Thanks to everybody as I try to get this beast back on the road.

    Interesting fact: when I bought this, the guy at the junkyard gave it a once over and told me that it'd be back on the road in days, right after an oil change. Seems that he was wrong with his off-the-cuff estimates. Way off. I suspect that, by the time I'm done, it'll cost me more than buying something new.
     
  15. Nov 11, 2019
    ojgrsoi

    ojgrsoi Retired. Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

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    Maybe not. ;)
     
  16. Nov 12, 2019
    sterlclan

    sterlclan Member Sponsor

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    But the knowledge is priceless
     
  17. Nov 23, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    Status Update:

    a) Hot Rod shop will do the kingpins, but I'm on a waiting list - they are swamped. I was told that I'm on a "short list" since I took the time to get the axle out of the Jeep and it was there in my hands. No disassembly on their part, so no big space needed and they can squeeze this in (so to speak) when they can.

    b) That tie rod end. This piece will be the death of me. The steering specialist at the same Hot Rod shop showed me that I was looking at the piece wrong. I was telling everybody that the bend was backwards (it bent left and the original was right). Turns out, I had the wrong center of chirality. If you use the taper of the center mounting hole - the direction that the drag link attaches to the tie rod end, then the bend is correct, but the problem is that the ball joint is mounted upside down. If you're gonna be correct, you had better be correct, right? So, because it's a casting, there is no way to cut it up and re-weld it safely. The two options were either find a second one that's bad and send it out to be re-built (don't destroy the only one I have in case it comes back even worse) or to end up modifying the tie rod so that we use a standard tie rod end, and then relocate the drag link connection point further inboard (and possibly shorten the tie rod and/or drag link to make it work. Goal would be to make the replaceable parts common factory items.

    c) Getting the axle out? Let's just say that I bit down hard on the bullet, purchased a generator, and brought my air drill to the garage. It took 3 hours to get 6 of the 8 U-Bolt "deep nuts" off. That was enough to get the lower spring support plates moved, and that was that. It was sorta anti-climactic at the end. No herald of trumpets. Just a 50+ pound axle with the (for now) irremovable steering knuckles. Oh, and those other two "deep nuts"? An hour each, once the axle was out, using a 36 inch breaker bar and a deep 3/4 inch impact socket. No torch cutting for me. I read after the fact that you cannot re-use U-Bolts, so I probably should have just Dremel-cut the stupid thing in half and been done with it.

    d) And, now with the axle missing in action, I decided that I was so damn deep, another six bolts couldn't kill me. Off came the pretty-close-to-flat front springs. Ordered them from Stengel Brothers (along with new Square U-Bolts and two extra shackle bushings for the front) and I will have them in 2 weeks.
     
  18. Nov 26, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    Springs arrived today! Wow - what a difference. Old ones are basically flat compared to these new guys. It should (eventually) make for a good ride. Sadly, the U-Bolts did not come in the same package. Oh well.

    I finally found my fuse box! Yes, there had to be one, and here it is!
    Fuse_Box.jpg

    I am probably going to have to pull that one out and figure out what's what with it.

    Today's Question: BRAKES!

    I just pulled the brass brake valve out. I would have called it a proportioning valve, but the books all call it a Brake Warning Valve. It has two switches on it (one at each end) and some sort of central electrode. While I have found replacement switches, I cannot tell if there is anything at all going on in this block. I see from the diagrams about the plungers and springs, and understand what it is trying to do. I just can't seem to find a new unit to drop in as insurance.

    Does anyone have access to old Jeep CJ-3 or so manuals to see if this is/was a standard part for the old jeeps? I've tried to search on the part number from out of the manual and I have, as expected, found bupkes. I am still digging, but if anybody has a hint, I'd appreciate it!

    While I'm at it - the Brake Light switches at the ends have these nail head style contacts. The wiring harness I have is toasted. Is there a common name for these types of connectors, so that I can go out and buy them to make a new harness?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  19. Nov 26, 2019
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Regarding the fuse panel (box), there does not have to be one. 1975 was the first year for a fuse panel in the CJ. Before that, there were a few inline fuses, and a circuit breaker on the light switch.

    With drums front and rear, you probably have the same combination valve used in the CJs. Read about it here https://oljeep.com/gw/74_tsm/9-BrakesWheels.pdf on page 19. Supposedly the valve is not repairable.

    This valve should work. GM Proportioning Valve 4 Wheel Disc Brakes It has the warning switch and a rear proportioning valve, like what I presume is the original valve.

    Post a picture of the original valve.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  20. Nov 26, 2019
    Jeff Bromberger

    Jeff Bromberger Member

    Dallas Metroplex...
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    Tim: you beat me to the punch. I found this old article about this combination block, but saw no conclusion to it. No replacement part number, etc. I've got the old 10 inch drum brakes, so I am hesitant to use anything other than what should be there...

    It's easier to show the image from the TSM instead (since that's what I have handy):
    Brake-Valve.jpg

    On the extreme left and right are the two brake light switches, which just happen to be available from Crown. The top has the two lines from the Master Cylinder,the bottom has the two lines feeding the wheels. Nothing in the center bottom beside the mounting bracket.

    Gimme a few moments and I will scan in the internals diagram from my TSM...
     

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