SM465 vs T18 vs other options?

Ok, My Jeep 1967 CJ5 Dauntless, T86, D18

I have an SM465,
I have a line on 2 Ford T18's (I run across conflicting info about adapting these)
I want a crawl gear,
I am worried about transmission case size SM465 seems very tall. (does it want to hang lower than stock?)
I am worried about the gear gap in the 4spds from 2nd to 3rd vs engine power.
I don't know if the 225 bell housing is GM bolt pattern (I'll have it out soon) on trans side.

So before I spend for bearing kits and adapters I would like to address the issues. I have searched the threads and haven't found any specifics that talked to me.

SM465 2nd gear=3.58 to 3rd gear=1.57
T86 1st gear=2.79 to 2nd gear=1.68

That's a big jump in gearing just for my '1st' gear on the street. Will my little V6 pull that ok?

Ground clearance is always a premium. I won't be lifting my Jeep as I'm trying to keep a semi stock appearance. Will that SM465 hang lower than the T86?

I won't be rock crawling but I do like to be able to walk faster than my truck at idle (a holdover from my Unimog days)

Anyway, these are my concerns so far. Engine thru transfer is coming out this weekend, I'll be counting splines and measuring holes in preparation for a parts order.

Facts, figures, links to threads are all welcome!

Thanks for reading
George

PS (please excuse any typos, my iPhone thinks it's smarter than I am)
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Any 4 speed will hang lower than the stock 3 speed. They are huge compared to a t90, t86, t14. The sm465 is the largest and requires more work to adapt it (complete disassembly). The 225 belhousing is a GM pattern so the sm420 and the sm465 bolt to it. The sm420 bolts up easily to it, the sm465 requires machine work to the bearing retainer and the belhousing to accept the larger bearing retainer of the sm465. The t18 will bolt up if it is the ford 2wd version. It will still need some minor work but its not hard.
The v6 will pull the gear spread of these transmissions fine.
Go to the knowledge page of the Novak adapters website, you will find all the info you need. You do realize wou will need driveshaft work, crossmember work and probably floorpan work. These are not simple bolts ins due to there size and the parts you are replacing.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/transmission_gateway.htm

 

Yes! I know there will be other crossmember/floor mods and disassembly reassembly. I just worried about that gear spread and the ground clearance.
I have most of the skills and tools to get the job done and I look forward to it I just want to get the right fit in there. I'll go look at the T18's this weekend and read a bit more on Novak. I think it was Novak's site that originally confused me about afford T18's though.

Thanks for the info on the bell housing.

I currently like the idea of the "best" 4speed going in (best according to Novack) but if it costs to much clearance...

 

I went down this trail in deciding which 4 speed to use, after looking at them all I went with the Ford T18 bolted up to my chevy 4 cylinder. It was simple to adapt to the chevy bellhousing and is the smallest 4 speed out there and fits the transmission hole in the floor board great. I had Parts mike machine down a new Ford T18 front bearing retainer for the Chevy bellhousing and to use a chevy throw out bearing. When I had the transmisson torn down for the rebuild, I drilled out the extra ears on the trans to mate to my chevy bellhousing. I like how compact this transmission is and it has a low first gear 6.42 and a nice spread between 2 thru. 3 gear. So, this was my choice, as for the SM465, this would be my second choice, but damm it is a big sucker!!!

 

I just read a bit more Novak. Finally noticed they give length as well as height measurements.
T18 and SM465 are close in height. Both 3-4" taller than T86. I hope that is partially a taller top.

If I go with Ford T18 what do I do for a bell housing? Or is it the same? Is this an adapter on the Novak site I am just not seeing?

My next flurry of noob questions is going to be about disc on my axles D27/D44 plus locking/LSD and floating etc...

Thanks everyone!

I'll add pictures when things start to happen
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Keep reading at the Novak site:
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/ford_to_gm.htm

I'm planning to install my Ford T-18 this winter. BTW, it requires complete dis-assembly for main shaft replacement.

 

I installed the SM465 and it wasn't any lower then the T-90. I just had to add to the floor.

As for the gearing? It work great with a V-6 and 4.27 gears.

 

Hav you got any pictures of your cross member and ground clearance?
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I've done both and black t-18 is my vote! t-18 smaller, easier to disassemble and put new shaft in. both need front retainer turned down, both have 1" adapter. 465 has bushings that need to be pressed on and off a PITA while assembling and it is really big. I've run a t-18 in my 3b for over 10 years with no problems, on my cj6 project I went with the sm465 just to see how it was, and while it's a fine option, I liked doing the t-18 better.

 

Thanks for all the replies! I am going to go with the SM456 I already have. It should be indestructible in my little V6 Jeep, and adapt easiliy if I want to go 283/327/350 later on.

I looked at the pics you all posted and then at my jeep.
Made some measurements with the floor panels off.
Seems like all that transmission will definitely fit under and I'll just mod the floor plates. No ground clearance lost at all.

In fact it looks like I can gain some if I lose the E-brake drum and mod the cross-member a bit. This might require the Advanced Adapters short kit rather than the Novak so I can adjust the angle of the D18.

Well, I'll start doing instead of planning and talking. I'll try to remember to take photos as I go.

thanks
again!

george

 

the only thing I would consider a to be a pain, after the install... foot placement for the gas pedal (The tunnel will be much larger than stock), and the X-member does get in the way sometimes even with 34's. As for the 465's performance... FANTASTIC. I run a 3.8L with 5.38's and couldn't be happier. The addition of a throttle solenoid makes crawling a dream.

 

I have the SM465 in my '69. I made a custom top cover over the transmission and clearance for the throttle pedal is an issue.

I used the Advance short adapter and Herm's crossmember mount kit. It requires some welding to the crossmember. I lost about an inch of bottom clearance, I had to run about 2" of crossmember spacers between frame and crossmember. This amount of spacing gave me about 1/4 inch of clearance between the floor and the transfer case.

This short adapter does help with driveline length, I have almost the stock length driveline again. It also allows for 3 different clocking angle options, I put mine all the way up to get as much ground clearance under the parking brake drum as I could get. This forced a lot of grinding to get clearance between the twin stick transfer case shifters and the side of the transmission case.

Its a lot of work but worth it.

Don

 

I did the same exact thing with mine

this is not mine but its done identical

it funny how some do stuff the same way not even seeing it done before lol worked out great

 

Oh no. My doubts have been rekindled. I didn't think about pedal clearance. Boots for Jeeping are wide.

Is it something a swinging pedal conversion would fix? Or is it simply to narrow in there?

If I have to start thinking about modding my engine mounts to swing things to passenger I am selling this 465