wranglers on the flattie.

well i have decided to pull the trigger on a wrangler spring conversion for my 3B.
i have a few questions.
im am planing on following hazels build, with a few mods.
i have new 33's so i dont want/need 4.5-5" of lift, probably more like 3".
im planning on going soa, with stocks.
so if i lower the spring mounting locations i should be able to decrease the hight. am i on the right track here, or lost?
thanks for al the help.

 

If you are talking about moving the spring mounts up into the frame or "frenching" them, then yes, that will lower your Jeep.

I do see some problems:
Steering, didn't see if your Jeep has a sag box or not? If not, SOA and stock steering don't get along. If it does have sag steering, then a drop pitman arm (4"+) may work to clear the crossover steering but there isn't any after market support for 25/27 highsteer arms.
Look at the angle of the draglink in the picture, just think if it had to go under the spring. This is stock rear CJ-7 springs, springs are new and don't have all the weight on them yet.




SOA is going to gain you about 5"+ of lift, way more than is needed for 33s. I would suggest getting some Wrangler lift springs and mounting them SUA. This will be a somewhat more bolt-in and still give you the ride you want with more flex.

Traction bar, with stock Wranglers, this is a must, especially with a V-8.

I'd run SUA for now, then later if you feel you need more, swap it then.

 

i'll help with some more info.
im planning on using a srs from m.o.r.e. just like hazel did.
and most likey stock rear spring hangers, just like hazel did.
on the srs i have 4.25" from frame to bolt hole.
and i have been told that on the rear hanger it is 3" from frame to bolt hole.
so that will put my springs close to 3-4 inches higher than the stocks, plus of minus some for spring settle. plus the fact that its soa. giving 5" lift.
if i raise these holes higher in the mounts, basically make it 2"-1.5" from frame to hole, that will lower the hight of the springs, thus giving me less lift, thus allowing me to run soa and not be 5" lift.
am i making sense, or not thinking correctly?

 

I agree with Bobracing you will be way to tall for 33s. Also Hazel went to SUA in the rear to avoid the issues with the rear traction bar which is a bear to deal with, and a necessity when you go SOA with stock wranglers.

 

I'm pretty busy the next few weeks, but I'll try to answer your question.

On the front I used the standard M.O.R.E. SRS setup and welded my shackle hangers directly to the bottom of the framerail. On the rear, I used factory Wrangler spring hangers and welded the shackle hangers directly to the rear crossmember/bumper about even with the bottom of the framerail.

Up front I'm using stock 5-leaf Wrangler spring packs and they're about even with the rear 4.5-inch Rubicon Express Wrangler spring-under lift springs I'm running in the rear. It's set up to run 35s, but I could get a 36 in there if I wanted to. Probably a 37, but that's too much tire for a flattie in my opinion.

I think you want less lift than me, right? If so, here's what I'd do:
1) run the M.O.R.E. "stubby" or "short" SRS up front. It has front spring hangers that are a lot shorter than the ones I used.
2) instead of welding the shackle hanger to the bottom of the framerail, box the framerail where the rear shackle will mount. Then, use a holesaw about 1/3- or 1/2-way from the bottom of the framerail (depending on how long your shackles are) and weld in a 1.5-inch diameter 0.120-wall piece of tubing as your shackle hanger mount.
3) Out back, cut a bit out of the center of the YJ spring hanger to allow you to raise it up so the spring eye is closer to the bottom of the framerail.
4) do the same on the rear for the shackle hanger

If you do this with stock 5-leaf Wrangler rear packs done spring-over you should be close to the same height as running a 3.5-inch spring-under lift. It should give plenty of room for the 33s and keep a low center of gravity.

I don't have any suspension photos handy of my flattie, but here are some on my pre-rodder to show how the rear suspension and maybe the front spring hangers could be done.

 

Can you link this please, haven't see it.

This needs to stay, it's dropped so low to keep the spring somewhat flat front to back. To much angle and braking/handling problems comes into play.

I'm guess you are talking about CJ rear spring mounts, if you look at them, they flare out and the spring can't be moved up. Custom hangers can be used but I don't believe you will get over an inch and still allow the spring flex.

5"+ of lift is a givin. This is the spring thickness and axle house.
You also have a SRS to deal with too, this is about 1.5-2 of lift too.
If you use flat springs, yes, this could drop the rig some but I'll bet if you look at the springs you have, there isn't much arc to them now and won't be loosing much lift by changing springs.

Yes and No. Your thinking is correct but pratical application is off.

1. The spring eyes you're swapping to are much larger and require being mounted farther away from the frame, compared to the old skinny springs.

2. SRS is going to cause problems, see above. This also drops the shackle below the lowest part of the frame. The shackle length below will be determined by how much spring movement you want, frame will limit short shackle movement. This is going to add that 1.5-2 inch to make the SRS work. You will also probably require a new long travel slip yoke too.

3. Not remembering exactly were the spring mounts are, the frame arc might move the mounts down too, adding more inches just by adding longer springs.



I know all the kool kidz have SOA but a SOA is a lot of problems for 33s.
A CV joint might be needed in the back too.

Edit: I see you have already seen Jay W's Jeep and I'm guessing this is where the SOA is coming from. Remember those are 37" tires not 33s.


As a side note, flat springs and SRS are counter productive. A spring with arch will move back when hitting a bump BUT a flat spring has to move foward.

 

dummy, thanks you pretty much hit it on the head.
i know your a busy guy so thanks alot for helping me out.
james, thanks for all the info.i have only seen a pic or two of jays jeep. see ya on the insanity.

 

okay dummy, couple more questions, what is the measurement from the front mount to the shackle mount. im trying to get a location to place the shackle hanger(or tubing frenched into the frame in my case).front and rear springs. on a stock frame i found it was like 43.78". also can i see a picture of your back bumper?

 

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well im a step closer, got my rear hangers, in the shop, ready to start the dissambly tommorrow. probably get a mess of numbers and measurements and angles and lengths and all that good stuff. then i can start cutting. i also have my cousins cj-5 with a very similar lift right next to mine, so i'll be coping alot of that stuff too.

 

I am going spring under on my CJ2A, 3.5 wrangler springs. And, it sits pretty high. I think spring over is out dated now that you can get good aftermarket lift springs. When I got my tube frame from Throttle down, they told me to go spring under as it was a better setup in the long run (less problems). I am happy that I listened to them, I would never go spring over (at least not on a CJ), to short of a wheel base.

 

hey dummy i hate to keep bothering you, but how much of your rear wheel well did you have to cut off to clear your tires?
or anybody else who has streached their wheelbase out on a flattie... same question.

 

'Bout that much:

 

thanks dude!
im thinking of going to yota axles and 36" iroks, mabey...

 

You've been talking to Phantom309 to much.

Couple things to think about:

Looks to me that Dummy moved the rear axle back about 2.5-3", this is about the max before a "comp cut" style is needed. This is also needed so tires don't hit the front wheel well corner.

Toy axles fit nice but you will have to change Xfer cases to use them, the 18 is offset, a rear toy axle is centered. If you are changing transmissions, good time for a D300.

 

ya thats right where im at.
now im looking into t/c's and trannys and motors... this is gettting crazy quick. if i change the t/c, then i may as well get rid of the t-90, and that old 283 really isnt really cutting it any more.... mabey i'll just go find a 85 toyota pick up and switch everything over to my jeep... oh i can hear the purists cringe... anybody got any advise on this?

 

I have a goodwrench 350, sm465, with a 20 on it. Just 2 hours away!!!

 

If you're going to go all Toy, swap the body onto the frame. The FI tank can be turned sideways in the back and used but the floor must be cut. Frame mounting the cage is a little easier. And of course the Toy has a stronger frame.
As for engines, a 4.3, 700r4, & D300 will fit, it's tight but will work.

http://www.earlycj5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67823
The Yellow rig is a toy frame and axles, 4.3, 700r4, d300.
The orange is a CJ frame with the same combo.

Not sure what you mean by this unless it's getting tired?
The 283 should be a very good engine, update to electronic ignition and FI off a 305. Cooling should be easier, though with a 3b radiator size isn't that much of a problem.

When it all comes down, get the suspension under it first. This will leave it running and drive able. After driving it some with the suspension, then think about swapping motors and trans. Eat the elephant one bit at a time or you will have a project that won't get done for a longggg time.

 

ya the engine is worn out, i could rebuild it, but more money.
i totally agree with the elephant analogy... so true.
i got some lines on a dana 20, and a couple toy trucks so its coming along.