Body work and where to find help.

Hi guys -- Started sanding/grinding on my buggy this weekend to prep the body for some paint. I have now figured out how a 51 year old Jeep could be in as good a condition (bodywise) as mine. I've found about 30lbs of Bondo all over the place. Looks like it did have rust at somepoint and had been fixed. Anyway, it needs fixed again (but not nearly as much) Previous owner brought it from bad to nice. I need to bring it from okay to nice. I'd say that 85% of the Jeep still has paint on it and the only real rust is surface stuff that seems to come out alright with 180 grit sand paper. Now I don't have much bodywork expierence, but I was wondering what type of prep work I have to do with the rest of the body that has paint. Do I just try to get off all of the rust and loose paint and "rough up" the rest with 220 grit? With Bondo, can you Bondo over Bondo? I'm planning on using a mig welder to fill in all the tiny screw and snap holes on the fenders etc.

Here is a cruddy picture.

Thanks for any help.

Dondo

 

I assume that you plan on repainting the entire Jeep. If thats the case then I would take ALL of the bondo off and most of the paint (sand blasting would be the best). This would give you a "fresh canvas" to start with.

Instead of using bondo to fix the problem, try to get the sheetmetal as straight as possible before using bondo. I would NOT recommend putting bondo over bondo. Use bondo to fill in the minor imperfections and then start sanding. An airboad or manual sanding board works great because a Jeep does not have many curved surfaces. Sand with progressively finer grits until the finish is smooth. Shoot the primer, then start sanding again. This time fill in the imperfections still left with some lightweight glazing putty. Wetsand everything, and then shoot the paint.

I'm sure others will chime in but this is the general process that I followed with my Jeep.

 

Bondo is not a bad thing per se; thick bondo or bondo over badly prepped metal is bad. Even the best shops use bondo as a skim coat to fill in minor bumps and dents.

Joe is right, you need to take off the bondo and most of the paint. The bondo may be ok and bonded well to the underlying metal, but you won't know unless you grind it off. You have to remove all of the paint anywhere the paint is failing; ie where it's gone chalky or surface rust is coming through. Anyplace you have bubbling under the paint or body cancer (penetration of the panels by rust) you must be very agressive in removing any remaining rust. The usual cure for body cancer is to cut out the rusty patch and replace it with new metal. Any other method won't last.

Here's a link to a good article about painting from start to finish: http://www.ifsja.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=025323;p=1

You need a goood air compressor to both run the tools and to shoot the paint.

 

When I started getting into the body work portion of mine, I started getting real disappointed. The only part on my Jeep that was bondo free was the grille and the tailgate. Even the cowl area in front of the windshield was bondoed. I ended up stripping all the old bondo off (propane torch and a putty knife). Good thing I did as I found poor fixes under all that bondo. P.O. patched over rust, without cutting it out and welding in a new patch, so it started bubbling from underneath. I welded all the holes shut with a mig welder like your talking about doing. Also cut out the rust and welded in patches of 16 gauge steel. Another thing is too apply brushable seam sealer, (I used evercoat brand) to the bracing areas where they meet inside, at the panels (like near the door opening and along the floor). Anywhere where dirt and moisture can collect and form rust. I also stripped out the old sealer along the cowl area and applied new sealer there. ( I used 3M heavy drip check sealer for that). I will post more in a few. Gotta go work.

Ok I'm back.

Like what was mentioned earlier, an air file or inline air sander is your best friend. I tried to get my panels as straight as I could first, although I could only do so much as the floorboards and bracing were slightly buckled and I did not want to bother with trying to pull this stuff out all the way. So basically what this causes is all of your outer sheet metal to be "caved in" a bit. On my tub when you eyeballed down the driver side, you could clearly see how warped the tub was. I managed to get the sheet metal out to where my maximum thickness for bondo was about 3/8" or less. Still not very good, but it will do till I get a glass tub.

As far as applying the bondo goes, what I did was apply it, then you get what's called a cheese grater, and this get's it down to a rough shape. Then I would use the 17" air file (mine was a Harbor freight cheapy) with 40 grit paper and sand it down till its just about flat. I used a 24" straight edge to look for low spots. Just place the thin edge along your panels, and look for daylight. That will be your low spots. Then you just fill these in and keep sanding till your happy with the flatness. I used 3 one gallon cans of bondo on mine, and probably 2/3 of that is on the floor in the form of cheese and sanding dust. You can get the pre cut sheets to fit the air sanders from most reputable automotive paint suppliers. In fact I found all my body materials to be cheaper at the paint supplier than it was at the auto parts store, plus the peopl are knowledgable about what they sell and can help you out.

Here's som pics of what I have been doing the last month.

 

More pics

 

i am constantly in awe of you folks. i knew i picked the right crowd to learn from. and i am learning (sometimes the hard way.. see my other threads lol.)

 

Bodywork was so weird for me. For years I was so intimidated by it. I just couldn't grasp the concept. Then after not even trying it for years, I bought a 65 Nova station wagon that was totally caved in on the passenger side. I had to cut out the rocker panel and "B" pillar and weld in another one etc. etc. Well when I was done this is what it looked like.



Now my ex wife has it, and she has thrashed it


I guess all I can say is "Just do it"

 

You can find a bunch of information here too:

http://www.autorestorer.com/boards/index.php?sid=0cbea5aec89baab26bcd47eb23430421

Jim

 

Dondo,
Lots of good info above. Just remember, rust is l,ike cancer. If you don't get it all it continues to spread.I am partial to metal patching, cutting out and fabricating new sheet metal parts.Sand blasting is also another great method.If you just grind the rust , you don't get it out of the pits.Why spend all the money on paint/ prep material to have to do it again in a few years.Also try a metal glazing product( its like runny bondo for small imperfections. It is also enhanced with zinc. Another great bare metal treatment is the DP primer from PPG. I have used PPG products for years and have beenb very satisfied with the results.

Good Luck! Dave

 

There are also some rust treatment products like Jasco, which is available from Home Depot. It's good for the nooks and crannies that you can't get to.