I need help..something is not right

I have been diagnosing an electrical problem for the past few weeks. This past early winter the jeep was not starting as well as she should have so I got a new battery because the old one was 7 years old. Put it in and it started right up. Everything was fine and dandy the entire winter until this spring. The JEEP started to get hard to start again. I thought it just sat a bit too long. I do have a night switch on the battery though so it made no sense. The water was good too. Then over the course of trying to start it I ran the battery down. No biggie I just put it on the charger and it was sort of better. Now when cranking it sounded like a bunch of mice were in the starter. Then a few months ago it stopped making the noise and the battery went dead again. So I went through the first things I could think of. Battery, cables and other connectors, starter, altenator, etc. While checking I found the ground was junk....po work . replaced it with a new one and checked the positive and it just needed tightening and cleaning. Charged the battery and it worked. While checking the altenator I noticed there was no load on my load tester and the same thing when I tested it with my altenator function on the battery charger. I had the lights on and the electric fan on so there should have been draw. Nothing? :? I got frustrated and left it for another weekend. Today i went out and checked the wires going to the altenator and discovered the plastic one going into the altenator had some serious corroision so I cleaned and put a small ammount of terminal grease in each connector. I then re-pluged it in and found the nut on the rear post was loose and the connectors needed cleaning too. Some contact cleaner and re-tightened and put the rubber boot back. I had to jump start the JEEP today also. When I unplugged the cables I noticed there was a bulge on the side of the battery. :? I know bulges are bad. Then I got to thinking maybe my truck I used had too much power for the battery and smoked it. Once I got her going I killed all of the bugs in a large area with the gray smoke I let out. Everyone I have talked to said you either need a valve job or the oil journals are plugged. I need to have valve cover gaskets on hand before removing the covers. Once warm the smoke went away and the exhaust smelled right. I turned her off and unloaded some hay, but when I came back and jumped her again there was a very big problem....it would idle great but when I gave it gas it was sputtering and sounding like it was out of time. Also when I turned the lights on for a load test the JEEP died. Could someone help me please.

1971 CJ5 :v6: W/HEI
1994 Tucker Sno-Cat T1000
2005 GMC 2500HD duramax diesel

 

Wow , lots of possibilities. I looked at your profile,... but just to be sure are we talking the Dauntless 225 V-6 ? All original electrical and fuel system ? And yep , bulges are usually not a good thing. More info needed.

 

Well we are talking about an odd fire but unfourtunately it is a 231 OF. I do have the chance to get a 225 Dauntless out of a jeepster I might do it just for the heck of it. maybe the jeepster is good enough for restoration. Even if that is not the case it would be good to get the right engine back in my JEEP. The fuel pump is new. the old one was replaced by myself this summer. changed the bad oil (gas contamination). As for the electrical.......it is not original. The previous owner changed the tub to a new year jeep and they have not a clue on how to wire anything. I am pulling out what little hair I have fixing the problems I find. The JEEP appears to have original motor mounts though. Unless they are a damn good welder. They look very stock. If anyone needs more info just ask.

1971 CJ5 :v6: HEI
1994 Tucker Sno-Cat T1000
2005 GMC 2500HD duramax diesel

 

Well ,lets put the smoking exhaust situation aside for right now and start with the electrical. The bulge in the battery does'nt sound good , you might pull the battery and the alternater and take them to a good parts store to be tested. Our local NAPA is pretty good about doing this for free , I dont know if thats common to these stores or not. They use a carbon pile resister load checking device on the battery as well as check the specefic gravity of the electrolite on batterys with removeable caps. They use a bench top testing tool for the alternater looking for opens , shorts and diode function. Diodes are like a one way electrical check valve and if you goy a defective one it will drain the battery even when the engine is off and key removed .Testing only takes a few minutes and this would at least establish a pass or fail on these compenents before you move on in your troubleshooting.

 

X2 on the diode being bad it will drain it while engine is off,and could quite possibly over charge while engine is running,may be where that the bulge came from

 

Thanks for the help guys. I was going to bring the battery back and get a new one seeing as it is not that old. The loacl NAPA and other parts stores will test my altenator on their machine for free here too. About the over charging thing.....two weekends ago while charging, the charger stopped charging due to unable to charge. It is a digital schumacher. I then jump started it and ran it up and down the road a few times. When I got back I threw a load tester on it and it read 10 volts. I said this is enough to charge it. Threw the charger on it and in about one hour it was done. I checked the volts with my load teaster and the load test was not too bad but it was almost not good. Tried to start it and she tried and then just clicked. Now we are up to the current situation. I was talking with one of my maintenance guys who used to work at Advance Auto parts and I asked him if jumping it with a diesel could over charge it? He said it is very slim but maybe. Any thoughts?

1971 CJ5 :v6: w/HEI
1994 Tucker Sno-Cat T1000
2005 GMC 2500HD duramax diesel

 

I would agree with your friend on overcharging with the diesel , maybe a lot of amps but still just 12 to 13.8 volts. If your battery had a weak ,defective or otherwise damaged cell the plates within that cell may have shorted , this could explain the bulge. With 6 cells at ~2 volts each you get ~12 V total. Blow out one cell and your left with~10 V. Pretty much what your load tester indicated when you tested. So... possibly the shorted cell is discharging the battery and with the remaining lower capacity struggling to supply the cranking amps may explain why you could'nt start it on its own and required a jump start it to get it running. A shorted cell may also explain why your digital charger refused to operate. The ignition will operate easly at ~9 V so once you got it running you were able to keep it running for a bit. Lets hope that its easy to fix by replacing the battery and lets also hope that the charging system did'nt take on any damage attempting to charge into a battery with a shorted cell. Just a theory , let us know how things check out.

 

Well here is an update....I took the batery and the altenator to the auto parts store to test out the two of them. Turns out the altenator was drawing and not putting power out. Got a new one. The batery was shot also. But I knew this. Got a new one with 800 cca and 1000 ca @32 degrees. Installed the altenator and then the batery. Got in and it started right up. Checked everything while it was warming up. Now the throttle response is good and the JEEP has peel-out power again. I do need to get another voltmeter though. Although there is an ammeter on it. Should I stick with an ammeter? Also on my old altenator there was two wires comming out of the back of the unit. What are these for? The new one does not have these. There is a wire going through the firewall I just need to chase it down to where it goes.:? Now I need to clean the rest of the wiring up and get her on the road. Thanks for the help everyone.

1971 CJ5 :v6: w/HEI - it's alive ! it's alive :twisted:
1994 Tucker Sno-Cat T1000
2005 GMC 2500HD duramax diesel

 

You didn't say what kind of alt. If you had delco and upgraded to single wire delco, that single (small) wire may have been for ignition (GEN) light to excite old unit. If your ammeter is still good, keep it. Ammeter gives you instant system condition. Volt meter will slowly drop with battery condition and can leave you stranded.

 

Sorry I forgot to put that info in. The old altenator is a Delco Remy. There is one plastic connector with two 12 gauge maybe wires going into it and a single post in the back going to the battery. The new one is a Delco Remy also. Same set up but no mystery wires coming out of the back. I have never seen this on an altenator before. Oh the altenator has a lifetime warrenty and it was under 35 bucks. Can't go wrong with that. I think it is a 70 or 72 amp alt. As for the ammeter.....I don't think it works there is quite a bit of rust built up in it. I could get another one though. I will check the connections though. it could be where the mystery wires were hooked up but I doubt it because the two wires were butt connected into one wire. :?

1971 CJ5 :v6: w/HEI
1994 Tucker Sno-Cat T1000
2005 GMC 2500HD duramax diesel

 

Sounds like the new alternater may be internally regulated. Dont quite know what to say about those butt-conected wires , you'll have to do some investigation there to see were they originate from. If you indeed do have the internally regulated unit you wont be needing the old "black box" external regulater anymore. Check out this website about alternaters, it may be of some help.http://mightymo.org/Proj_OneWire.html As far as the ampmeter goes I agree with Walt and would keep it. You could always wire up a voltmeter and run both if you wanted. Interesting thread started by Boyink here recently on ampmeter vs. voltmeter, check that out for ideas. Did the smoking of the exhaust go away after you got full power ignition back and cleared those fouled cylinders out ? Glad to here that you are getting things worked out.

 

The new altenator is in fact internaly regulated. Myself and my maintenance guy from work both agree the PO messed something up with the old alt and tried to "fix" it and this is where the other wires came from. The bearings on the old unit were shot also. As for the smoking exhaust.... it seems to have gone away. The exhaust odor smells a hair rich but I still have to change the plugs so I will decide then. Now she sounds mean and has more power.:twisted: I need to put another Ampmeter in her though. Need to take some more photos of my progress with getting the JEEP better suited for the road. Thanks again everyone.

-Jim-

"Things are looking up." -Berkshire Brewing Co.

1971 CJ5 :v6: w/HEI
1994 Tucker Sno-Cat T1000
2005 GMC 2500HD duramax diesel