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Backfiring, misfire, points, and other ramblings

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by jayhawkclint, Jul 11, 2007.

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  1. Jul 11, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    between the two what?
     
    sparky, Jul 11, 2007
    #21
  2. Jul 11, 2007
    jayhawkclint

    jayhawkclint ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Oklahoma City, USA
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    Even and odd fire pickups or whatever distributor part causes this.
     
    jayhawkclint, Jul 11, 2007
    #22
  3. Jul 11, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Points distributors don't have pickup coils and like I said, they come in one flavor.
     
    sparky, Jul 11, 2007
    #23
  4. Jul 11, 2007
    jayhawkclint

    jayhawkclint ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Oklahoma City, USA
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    Hmmm... Me thinks Brown Santa is going to be dropping of an Ignitor in the next coupla days.
     
    jayhawkclint, Jul 11, 2007
    #24
  5. Jul 11, 2007
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    What do the plugs look like Clint?
     
    w3srl, Jul 11, 2007
    #25
  6. Jul 11, 2007
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    <bowing and facing Kansas>

    You are correct sir. :oops:

    However the backfiring in one side of the engine still keeps taking me back to late or erratic ignition in one or more cylinders. I've had something as simple as a dirty distributor cap or a bad plug wire do this...
     
    w3srl, Jul 11, 2007
    #26
  7. Jul 11, 2007
    jayhawkclint

    jayhawkclint ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Oklahoma City, USA
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    They were sooty, but I was jetted way rich. I'm down to 50 on the primaries and have a lot of throttle response. I think I might jet up to 51. Pretty sure I got the mixture right, but I still get back fire when I rev the throttle, then let the engine decel without load. So shifting gears, for example, produces an explosion that I'm afraid is going to grenade my valves, and only from the pass side.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2007
    jayhawkclint, Jul 11, 2007
    #27
  8. Jul 11, 2007
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    Just thinking, can you get the engine to do this easily in the driveway, or do you have to drive it? You might be able to narrow down the offending cylinder by removing one plug wire at a time & trying to get it to backfire again...
     
    w3srl, Jul 11, 2007
    #28
  9. Jul 12, 2007
    jayhawkclint

    jayhawkclint ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Oklahoma City, USA
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    Yup. Does it easily in the driveway. Did that already. It's all three pass side cylinders.



    Ummm... I think I might know what's wrong. :oops:

    Dern mosquitos are keeping me at bay, though.

    Will post more test results in the morning.
     
    jayhawkclint, Jul 12, 2007
    #29
  10. Jul 12, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    :toetap: It's morning.
     
    sparky, Jul 12, 2007
    #30
  11. Jul 12, 2007
    jayhawkclint

    jayhawkclint ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Oklahoma City, USA
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    Well, I haven't actually tried it yet, but I think I might know what's going on.

    :oops: You remember when I had that clearance issue with my vac advance, and then I had a hard time getting it to start because my timing was off? Well, in that process, I ended up swapping wires several times: I think what may have happened is that the plug wires ended up getting moved only one position instead of two. I think I need to pull the dist, rotate it one more tooth, then put the plug wires down in the next position over. I had it that way once, but when it didn't start (probably due to timing), I second guessed myself and moved them one more position, which is where they sit today and pretty sure are wrong after studying the cap and dist for a little while last night. Basically, I think my ignition is trying to fire in the wrong 45*/75* position. Will try it tonight when I get off work and post what happens.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2007
    jayhawkclint, Jul 12, 2007
    #31
  12. Jul 12, 2007
    jayhawkclint

    jayhawkclint ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Oklahoma City, USA
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    Think that would cause my problem, just pass side misfire/backfire?
     
    jayhawkclint, Jul 12, 2007
    #32
  13. Jul 12, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I may be, but I thought that the OF HEI due to it's unique design was the distributor that you had to move plugs two posts on and the OF points distributor doesn't have the funny pickup coil in it that the points just open and close with the cam lobes on the shaft. The cap isn't a modified V8 cap like the HEI.

    That is, I don't think it's possible to put a points distributor in 180* out like an HEI, but I've been wrong before.

    Harder to describe and think about without the Jeep in front of me to work on. :oops:
     
    sparky, Jul 12, 2007
    #33
  14. Jul 12, 2007
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member

    Falcon, CO
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    Sparkey - I believe you are correct - It's been a while since I worked on a points one that deep, but remember the lobes doing the work on the points like the pickup and cap on the HEI.
     
    Warloch, Jul 12, 2007
    #34
  15. Jul 12, 2007
    Vanguard

    Vanguard Take Off! Staff Member

    Vista, CA USA
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    Sparky, I can confirm this. The OF points do ride the lobes on the distributor shaft. The points open and close as the inner half of the points rise up and down on the lobes. The cap is not a modified cap and looks like a normal cap with regular spacing of the wires.

    sdcj6 (Ray) and ljspop (Bob) were over last night helping me with Betsy. We were able to fire the motor and get her running on all six cylinders using the dual-point, but we found that either the mechanical advance springs were weak or had been adjusted wrong.

    After this we swapped out the Mallory for a OF Delco Points type distributor, unfortunately it had been dropped at some point and needed some tweaking to get the cap to fit. Using this distributor, Betsy would run, but we the driver's side cylinder bank was firing at the proper time (cold header tubes). We tried shifting a tooth at time to improve it and also rotated the distributor 180* in an attempt to fix it, but weren't successful before we called it a night.
     
    Vanguard, Jul 12, 2007
    #35
  16. Jul 12, 2007
    jayhawkclint

    jayhawkclint ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Oklahoma City, USA
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    Swapped points and condenser. Set dwell. No joy.

    Started moving dist around 1 tooth at a time, now I can't get it to start at all. Lunch break over, need to get back to work. Pretty frustrated. Probably won't get to work on this again until Sun night.

    Can somebody please walk me through installing the OF points dist from the start? Is there any special "indexing" or anything that needs to be done other than finding #1 TDC and lining up the cap?

    TIA.
     
    jayhawkclint, Jul 12, 2007
    #36
  17. Jul 12, 2007
    sparky

    sparky Sandgroper Staff Member Founder

    Perth, WA
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    Find TDC, point the rotor at #1, drop the distributor in, make sure the point gap is set with the point open (you knew that though), start, set timing and dwell.

    I might have time on Sunday to come over and make things worse, err, lend a hand if you need it.
     
    sparky, Jul 12, 2007
    #37
  18. Jul 12, 2007
    Vanguard

    Vanguard Take Off! Staff Member

    Vista, CA USA
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    Clint,

    Does your rotor have the tang?

    [​IMG]

    I know the one I got from NAPA didn't, so it looks like that may be part of my problem.
     
    Vanguard, Jul 12, 2007
    #38
  19. Jul 12, 2007
    jayhawkclint

    jayhawkclint ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Oklahoma City, USA
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    Yup. Swapped it out, too. No joy.
     
    jayhawkclint, Jul 12, 2007
    #39
  20. Jul 12, 2007
    Toolmaker

    Toolmaker Member

    Westminster, SC
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    The lobes of a points distributor are spaced just like the pickup of the module in an HEI so if it's 180* out or even one lobe off then it will not run correctly. When you pull the #1 cylinder up to TDC ( be sure it's on the compression stroke) and install the distributor, there should be a wide space between the lobe the points are on and the next lobe in (clockwise) sequence.
     
    Toolmaker, Jul 12, 2007
    #40
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