Cages-What's best for a CJ?

Been a lot of talk lately about cages and I am going to build one for Pete before too long. So I wanted to hear discussion on opinion, facts, personal experience, and anything else you all have to say on the subject. The crux of my question lies in the type, not so much in materials or whether you sould tie into the frame, etc.
By type, in my experience there are three main types of rollcage; main hoop/halo/A-pillars, main hoop/A-pillars(to hoop)/x-bar, and main hoop/front hoop/tie-bars. I've seen all three used on jeeps and am curious where the discussion will lead. What do you have to say?:v6:

 

I don't have a cage yet, but when I do I've decided to go with a pickup style cage. Front hoop, rear hoop and ties so I can still use my half cab. Problem around here is finding someone to build it.

 

IMO it depends on the wheeling you do, if you rarely take it on the trails, and when you do they are light ones, buy a main hoop, with a 'sport cage' welded in the front. If you can afford more though, a cage is no place to skimp if you wheel a lot.

 

If you do frame tie ins there will be a lot of flex in front of the A-pillar. I thought I was going to twist the Jeep in half after my cage was done up to that point. I actually had the cage extened all the way up to the radiator hoop to keep the frame from getting destroyed.

 

I really really like my dash mounted brackets. Before that I had the down tubes going to the floor in front. It was aggrevating as heck to constantly bump that down tube with my feet. Now I've got alot more room and I think the mounting location is actually stronger. I also had a problem with my door closing against the down tube that went away with the dash brackets.

 

Back in the day, a single loop behind the seats was considered enough for most trail riding. At that time, there were maybe 5% of owners who added a single front loop (main hoop, front hoop, tie bars), also anchored to the floor. Of course, these were new or near-new vehicles with steel bodies. Often the floor mounting plates were reinforced with extra-large backing plates, but these cages depended on the structural integrity of the body to keep the occupants within the cage. Also, I've only recently seen hoops added to protect the rear seat passengers, except maybe on dune runners.

Since then, the "full cage" has become much more popular, but it's hard to judge the incremental improvements in safety with added bars.

With my CJ-6, I plan to add a single loop bar right away, if I can find one. The correct CJ-6 bar mounts behind the front seats like the CJ-5 bar, but the hoop goes to the floor. Then I might add a front bar, depending on what kind of top I use. I know from personal experience that the windshield is a real hazard to the occupants in a rollover.

I'm just not sure adding a lot more steel will provide a lot of safety benefit, if the tub is solid. You might feel more secure, but I doubt it will do much to protect you at highway speeds... the usual hazard is a slow rollover due to extreme sidehill angle, and I think the minimal cage will protect you from that very well.

You could imagine rolling down a long, rocky slope where the body is hammered off of the frame and/or cage. I'm not sure how realistic this is. What evidence we have is anecdotal, and there are so many variables, our physical intuition can only take us so far. I'd also wonder whether a more elaborate cage is the best way to use our time and money to achieve better safety. For example, I'd think that netting (like NASCAR uses) to keep arms and legs inside the cage might have a bigger safety payoff than more steel or a more elaborate structure.

 

The "Full Cage" is NOT just a bunch of added bars, sure some people will add a handle here and there, but a properly triangulated and tied in cage Will naturally have more bars, and WILL provide better protection in a hard roll, even on the road, It is a matter of physics and geometry. However it is not needed for everybody.

Sheet metal crumples, I would never rely solely on a cage tied into the body alone if you are planning on wheeling hard regularly where you know you may be rolling. This is ESPECIALLY true of a 30+ year old vehicle. Playing down the benefits of a full cage is dangerous and stupid IMO. Real cages are made of thick wall DOM, just like what you would find in a race car, and I think they have proven time and time again what a full cage can do for the driver in a hard roll/crash.

THAT SAID I am not saying "go buy a full cage" though as I do not think every rig needs one, my flatty for instance will not get one, but my YJ is.

 

Heh. I didn't think I wrote anything conclusive ... :driving:

 

I'm not quite clear on the "frame tie-in" concept....wouldn't that require cutting big holes in the floor to get the cage tubing through to access the frame? And are they normally welded to the frame or bolted? Once it's mounted to the frame, can it ever be removed again, if you want/need to remove the tub for example?

I'm thinking that here in Colorado a cage might be a good idea, but I have no plans for any kind of radical wheeling, just mild scenic-type stuff. But there's the possiblilty of steep, slippery trails and a definite rollover hazard.

 

I'll have to research that when the time comes. I'm sure there's several people here in CO that build cages for the huge off-road population here.

 

dont forget the rubber bushings in between the frame and the cage. it will minimize the stress added from the rigid cage. might eliminate frame cracks.

 

I like the resto mod look so I built my "sport bar" "roll bar" "cage" or whatever the buzz word is these days along the lines of what you would see "back in the day". This is my fourth one built almost exactly the same way. One has been roll over tested. My 48 missed a corner in the Black Hills and went over the side of a cliff. It rolled a couple times and landed against a rock. The roll bar wasn't tweaked and neither of the occupants was injured.

I think I am with Tim and agree that some kind of netting or arm restraint would be a better way to spend that hard earned cash. When I rolled my buggy my arm hit the sand on the first roll. I was very fortunate that I didn't break the arm.

I don't think it necessary to have a Nascar certified roll cage in a play jeep. I don't foresee hitting a wall at 200MPH. I am also not a fan of the jungle gym look. Unless you are into extreme wheeling even a single hoop works quite well. I have seen the newer windshield frames after rolling. They hold up quite well. Not so sure about some of the older ones. When my 48 went over it didn't hit the windshield frame as the roll bar protected it.

I don't think any single style is better than another. Like already mentioned, make sure it meets the criteria of the places you will wheel. Many places require the family bars for back seat passengers. I think some of the jungle gym cages out there are way overkill. Although, some of the jeeps I have wheeled with are probably in the 7000# range so maybe all those extra bars are whats holding the thing together.

My goal is to keep my jeep as light as possible to maintain the advantage of the smaller rig. To each their own though....

 

Well, with the terrain here in Colorado, I feel like I might need something!

 

Hey - that's the exact picture I was thinking of. Kinda looks like it's been doctored though.

 

i was in a full size ford when it rolled.it had smittybilt cage in it.the cab mashed down on it.only injury i had was knocked the breath out of me.i beleive in full cages even if they are storebought.bob

 

No tellin', but it wasn't me. I didn't do anything to the photo.