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Jeep lean

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Doug/Tucson, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. Apr 2, 2007
    Doug/Tucson

    Doug/Tucson Member

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    I believe I asked this question with in another post, got no info on this. while reading someone else's post
    somebody mentioned axel warp. Not exactly sure what that is. Anyway, my question was, is it safe and sensible to remove leaf springs from the passenger side in order to have the jeep run level or is this an absolute no-no
    And why, I know there will be something odd happening When I go over bumps
    Doug/Tucson
     
  2. Apr 2, 2007
    blevisay

    blevisay Oh Noooooooooooooooo! Staff Member

    Portland Tn.
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    I would look at buying new springs to cure Jeep lean myself
     
  3. Apr 2, 2007
    Doug/Tucson

    Doug/Tucson Member

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    They were just replaced with a used springs from Willys works marked M38 A1-R and the rear springs, which were the only ones replace had a heavy add a leaf, could i have them on the wrong side? At first I thought I had two right sides but i was told the R ment rear would like to spend the money I have on things like new seats and gauges. Also, I might have to rebuild the front axle
     
  4. Apr 2, 2007
    blevisay

    blevisay Oh Noooooooooooooooo! Staff Member

    Portland Tn.
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    R for Rear.....

    Sometimes we gotta spend more that we want. Maybe put a want to buy ad.
     
  5. Apr 2, 2007
    blevisay

    blevisay Oh Noooooooooooooooo! Staff Member

    Portland Tn.
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    Oh and I dont mean this to sound snotty or anything but its just a thought.......all the new seats and Guages in the world would look silly on a Jeep that leaned. IYKWIM
     
  6. Apr 2, 2007
    Doug/Tucson

    Doug/Tucson Member

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    I know that's why I'm trying to get this fixed first I have hand springs re bent
    since this is a common problem. I thought there might be a simple fix if the springs were on top of the axle. I would simply add a block to raise it. I did try a block to lower the right side had new u bolts custom-made, but it still wasn't right, note Heavy add aleaf both sides first one not bent. does not have the taper at the end. deafently added
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2007
  7. Apr 2, 2007
    tommycj

    tommycj Member

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    I had the same problem with a 1972 CJ bought new in 1971. Heavy duty suspension (I believe the rear had at least 10 leaves). Did the lean to the right in a short time. Dealer replaced the springs with new ones from Jeep, and the problem persisted.
    The solution, which will not work too well when off-roading, was a set of air shocks with individual fills, more air on the passenger side. The results--level ride.
    Don't know what caused it, but lived with the solution.
     
  8. Apr 2, 2007
    Doug/Tucson

    Doug/Tucson Member

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    I asked Willys works about using air shocks, and for some reason he said no
    not a good idea but he never said why. My only other thought was to add longer shackles, but that would show where as removing leaf springs would be less obvious. The same thing is happening with this post that happened with the other post, the original question was would removing leaf springs be an absolute no-no, because? Now apparently, nobody has tried this or they simply have not seen the post yet. I could go to Arizona spring and have the springs rebent. I had this done with my truck and the main spring broke and had to be remade. This was done to lift the front and whereas the rear was done with blocks. I have two jeeps, this would mean re doing four sets of springs on the left side. I'm thinking air shocks would be the answer, one set of four would do both jeeps. But removing leaf springs would be cheaper
    unless there is a safety, handling problem or cause damage to the jeep
    Doug:(
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2007
  9. Apr 2, 2007
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Doug, if you search there's been lots and lots of discussion of lean before. No problem moving springs left to right, if you want to try it - that's exchanging the whole spring. Keep the same number of leaves on both sides so that they have the same rate (nominally).

    Even brand new Jeeps (see above) would lean ... it may bug you, but I think the best thing you can do is ignore it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2007
  10. Apr 2, 2007
    blevisay

    blevisay Oh Noooooooooooooooo! Staff Member

    Portland Tn.
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    If you know the answer to your question then why ask it?
    Do a search and you will find lots of posts like Tim said. You are not the first person to want to rearch the springs, IIRC they dont last long. I can tell you a new set of springs cured the lean for me.
     
  11. Apr 2, 2007
    JeepTherapy

    JeepTherapy Sponsor

    Negaunee, Michigan
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    Black Jeep with still shiny BDS lift springs is starting to get some lean to it. When I get more energetic or it bothers me more I will swap the springs from side to side. I am not even against opening up spring packs and swapping individual leafs from side to side. I would not however use an unequal number of leafs from side to side. I also would not spend money to have springs re-arched. New springs are not that expensive and the old ones are probably quite fatigued anyway.

    As for axle wrap, that typically isn't that big of a deal with springs under the axles. I have seen axle wrap S shape springs with spring over axle.
     
  12. Apr 3, 2007
    80cj

    80cj Member

    Hawaii
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    How much is it leaning? If it's only an inch or so, don't worry bout it, it's normal. There are probably more Jeeps that lean than those that don't. A couple years ago I put a new set of springs on my CJ-5 and it was leaning before I even got in it.
     
  13. Apr 3, 2007
    Doug/Tucson

    Doug/Tucson Member

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    I do not know the answer to the question!
    Question once again, is. will removing leaf springs cause a problem with handling, or damage to the jeep somehow, this is the question I will search the archives, but I was hoping somebody would know.:shock:
    I am aware of all the alternatives, as I stated
    Doug
     
  14. Apr 3, 2007
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    If this is the question...
    Then this was the answer...
    Different # of leafs per side == different spring rate == bad idea.
     
  15. Apr 3, 2007
    Doug/Tucson

    Doug/Tucson Member

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    I do not know the answer to the question!
    Question once again, is. will removing leaf springs cause a problem with handling, or damage to the jeep somehow, this is the question I will search the archives, but I was hoping somebody would know.:shock:
    I am aware of all the alternatives, as I stated
    Doug
     
  16. Apr 3, 2007
    Doug/Tucson

    Doug/Tucson Member

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    Sorry about the double post, but the actual question was originally
    is. removing leafs from one side a no-no, and why.
    I will go to Arizona spring today and asked them
    Doug
    bad idea, really isn't the answer I was looking for
     
  17. Apr 3, 2007
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    Different spring rates means one side of the Jeep will be stiffer than the other, and rebound from a bump or bounce differently than the other, and would likely cause a side-to-side shift or shimmy, which in a short wheelbase high center rig like a Jeep == bad idea.
     
  18. Apr 3, 2007
    lynn

    lynn Time machine / Early CJ5 HR Rep Staff Member

    Huntingdon PA
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    Removing leaves from one side will result in a different spring compression rate from one side to the other. This will show up when both of your back tires hit a bump at the same time... one side will compress at a faster rate/farther compression than the other, and may cause some handling difficulties, could cause loss of control depending on speed, conditions. Further, cornering/body roll and recovery will be different depending on which diection you turn if you remove leaves from only one side.
    Keep your spring packs matched. Period.

    There is -plenty of history documented on the CJ lean. Some leaned from the factory. Many started to lean after some use. Just about all CJs lean now.
    The potential reasons/guesses are many, anywhere from spring fatigue from torque application or drivers weight, frame twist/flex variations, tub twist/variations... and many more.
    Sometimes they lean more one day than the next. I really think that if all else is equal, it's the flexing/movement of the riveted frame (as opposed to solid welded) that allows the variation and explains why it's different one day to the next. Am I right? Maybe, maybe not... it's the guess that makes the most sense to me :D
    Jeep had a "fix" for those brought back to the dealer for the lean... and maybe even before they left the factory: they added a block to one side. My ''71 had it... a ~3/4" thick block of steel... I can't recall now if it was between the perch and spring, or the sprin and spring plate...:? The Jeep leaned anyway.
    I scrapped it, installed new springs. Jeep still leans a bit. Some of that is my fault, I made some "unbalanced" mods. I'd expect it to still lean somewhat even if the mods I did were perfectly proportioned.

    Don't worry about it, it's a CJ. They all lean (except Animal ;) )
    There should be plenty of other important issues on which to focus.
    It's a CJ thing.
    :)
     
  19. Apr 3, 2007
    Doug/Tucson

    Doug/Tucson Member

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    Thank you both
    Doug
     
  20. Apr 3, 2007
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    You're asking a question to which there is not a 100% definite answer. The answer is probably/most likely. Best way to say it has already been said. Bad idea to have 2 different amount of leafs in the spring. The spring shop is going to tell you the same thing. Dang, you guys are quick. LOL.
     
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