(CJ5) Springs Over Axels ???

Hey Guys,

Wow is it ever cool to know, there are so many jeep fanatics out there. I just recently bought my 77' CJ5 last fall from a guy around home whom I've been pestering for the last 6 yrs. Needless to say he finally gave in. I had a hard time seeing it sit there by the bush, and nothing being done. Fortunatley there's alot of jeep left. He even had the original full Jeep soft top for it in his garage.(good shape). A buddy and I have went through the brakes and put a carb kit in. I'll fill you guys in later on the other stuff I've done and would like to do.

My question is, The springs need to be replaced and shocks. Is there a problem with getting new blocks to weld on top of the axels so the new springs will be on top rather than slung under the axels??:? I realize I'll probley have to get some different steering componants,right? In advance thanks for your help


I thought I would give you guys an idea what I got goin on.
*1977 CJ5
*304 v8
*3 spd (I think T-14 tranny not sure!)
*Dana 20 T-Case
*AMC 20 rear (2PC axels "JUNK") 3.54 ratio
*Dana 30 front diff

I'm not happy with my gear ratio's though. I would like to have better luggin power, As it is in 4-low I can stall her if I just letter lug or dump the clutch. I would really like to do the 1-pc axel upgrade in the back and as well an Aussie locker is needed. I was told that by putting in a rockcrawler kit in my Dana T-Case that it would be right where I need to be keeping the 3.54's??? Any inexpensive ideas out there. (Hard to convince my wife of these nesceties "can't spell to good" I need for the Jeep.)

I'm also lookin to install a new wiring harness.

Any help would be muchly appreciated Thanxs.

 

I have one Jeep thats a SOA setup, my advice is buy a good lift kit and forget the SOA.
Oh yea and welcome to our home away from home.

 

Thanks, J.McDavid. If you don't mind can you give me a little better explanation on the pro's and cons of both. I need to know the reasoning behind it. Thanx again........

 

Do a search for SOA. There's tons of info. BTW, Welcome! Any pictures?

 

Thanks 72 Jeep Gal, I'll see what I can find out. Any hints???

And yes I'm planning on putting some pic's on pretty soon.

 

New brake lines
New Driveshafts
Driveshaft angles
Reconfigure steering, major hurdle
How to eliminate axle wrap
I would think it would be tippy if daily driver

These are a few reasons not too.

Good articulation and tire clearance is the plus.

0.02

High5

 

What High 5 says plus more.
Mine has been rolled more than a few times. R)
You get some great flex, but you also can pull your driveshafts apart. Been there a few times. R)
Longer shocks, this is kinda a trial and error deal.
Its not a cheap setup to do, no matter what you read in the mags.
A good aftermarket kit in the 3"-4" will get you almost as much lift.

 

Thanks for the info guys. I really don't want to increase the chances of rolling, than a guy already has.

Thanx again.

 

Hey I really appreciate all the info, thanx for taking the time to explain all of it to me. Pretty easy to make my decsion now. I got a couple of price quotes comin to me on some lifts. I think the biggest tires I'll ever go with are 33's MABEY 35's that will be much later on though.

P.S. Really like what you've done with your CJ there TumbleWeed.

 

Spring over.....big NoNo.

 

Nothing wrong with running SOA. Just know what you're getting into and do some research first. My '67 has been SOA for about 9 years now. I'm just now having to replace/ upgrade the rear springs with YJ ones. No problems with the fronts yet. It rides pretty good down the highway as well (for a SOA CJ5 with 36" swampers )

 

From my experience, you won't be too happy with the SOA, especially if you drive it on the road any. I am going to be working on a CJ5 this weekend that a guy just did a SOA on. He was driving it on the road before but now doesn't feel safe in it. We are going with full size chevy axles and changing all kinds of other stuff on it. It will not be street legal anymore after we are done with it. If you want bigger tires and are going to drive it on the road much, go with a good suspension lift. Just my .02.

 

If stock should be the T-150

 

Since this SOA v. SUA question comes up so much, it might be worthwhile to do a little analysis of the geometry of the two setups and see if we can identify the differences. We could also enumerate the strengths and weaknesses of each approach.

Not meant to be authotitavie, but to try and bring what all has been written into a single discussion. Please comment!

SUA:
o Comes stock with the Jeep; makes radical accidental changes in the steering geometry and stability less likely.
o Many different bolt-on lift kits are available, that should bolt on without a lot of changes.
o Adding lift is probably more expensive initially than a SOA using scrounged or used parts.
o Typically uses very stiff springs; I'd expect this is intentional since it adds to the on-pavement stability by reducing body lean. It also may be a carry-over from the military days, when payload was important. You can select different spring characteristics to trade off these traits against more flex, less stability and/or lower payload.
o Sometimes requires changes in driveshaft or pinion angle, driveshaft type, adjustments in steering geometry (caster), new bump stops, lowered transfer case.

SOA:
o Comes stock on some vehicles, but not the CJ-5.
o Usually uses less expensive stock parts (ie Wrangler springs) which can often be scrounged or bought new cheaper than lift kits.
o Requires welding; the spring perches must be relocated to the tops of the axles, and new spring brackets must be applied to the frame if wider, softer springs are used.
o Softer springs allow more flex, but also allow more body roll. Stability will be compromised, but that too is a tradeoff.
o Likely requires changes in driveshaft or pinion angle, driveshaft type, adjustments in steering geometry (caster), new bump stops, lowered transfer case.
o Increases spring wrap due to the changes in spring geometry.
o Provides better ground clearance at the axle spring mounts, with fewer protrusions that can get hung up.

Gotta go scan now - I'll be back in a couple of hours and add some more about spring geometry with a few drawings.

 

This would be a pretty good idea because there are benefits to both ways of lifting. Basically it depends on how much $$ you can spend and if you are a "bolt-on" or a "fab" kinda guy.

 

Yeah you bet. I am pretty good with fabbing so that part wouldn't really be of concern. My next question would be about the wrangler springs??? What is the pro's of switching to them, keep in mind both my fronts & backs are sagged right out.

 

Main things are better ride quality and the Wrangler springs are not as stiff. A lot of the Samurai guys that I go wheelin with run stock Wrangler springs. Plus, they are fairly easy to find. I had a set given to me from a guy who put a lift on his Wrangler and just wanted someone to haul them off.

 

YJ springs are wider also.
Some say the best oem spring ever on a Jeep.

 

I don't think there's any advantage to a spring-over other than the parts are cheap. From my understanding of the geometry, there's no difference in flex between a SOA and SUA with the same spring rates. Wheel travel is actually reduced with SOA, although they can come out equal if the springs are outboarded. There is also a big disadvantage due to spring wrap becasue of the position of the axle on the spring. I want to make some drawings to show what I mean, but I can't really do them at work right now... later.

 

There are no advantages to SOA in my opinion. It is just a cheap, and unsafe if done improperly, way of lifting your Jeep 5 or so inches to fit bigger tires. I would rather just take a sawzall to the body. I do have to agree with J.Mcdavid on the quality of the oem YJ springs. I have seen them used on every kind of trail rig out there with all different kinds of axles.