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225 W/Pro-jection

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by msbweiland, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. Dec 3, 2003
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
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    Now James come on you play with live steam and that ain't cheap in anybodys book. :shock:
    But seriously I do believe that we can come up with a working viable system for about $200 or less depending on the junkyard parts cost. By making our own crank trigger and adapter plate and using a specific system from a vehicle in the junk yard.
     
  2. Dec 3, 2003
    ScottP66CJ

    ScottP66CJ Member

    SoCal
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    59
    This is similar to what the odd fire program for the Megasquirt does. Basically it takes an average of all 6 fires and evenly spaces them. This is done within the computer.
     
  3. Dec 3, 2003
    mruta

    mruta I drank with Billy!

    Downers Grove, IL
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
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    422
    To get the evenly spaced RPM signal, no reflash or black box is needed. Too complicated and too much to go wrong IMO. The way I've been planning to do it was to have McRuff hook me up with a super custom bracket to mount a sensor near the harmonic balancer. I have a guy in Indy who puts these "steel slugs" into the balancer exactly 120 degrees apart and presto, we have a genuine imitation 4.3L RPM signal! The only non-shelf parts would be McRuff's bracket and modifed balancer. I planned to have the guy in Indy make up my balancer and then ship it to McRuff so he could make a copy of it. My major holdup was that my balancer wasn't in very good shape. Maybe I'll just ship it off to Mike and have him go at it as an experiment. Whaddayathink Mike? ;)
     
  4. Dec 3, 2003
    ScottP66CJ

    ScottP66CJ Member

    SoCal
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    Oct 16, 2002
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    59
    This sounds interesting.

    How do the steel slugs work? Aren't you just putting steel slugs into
    steel?

    Tell me more. I am getting way to excitted about how this is progressing. I have been researhing this topic for 2 years.
     
  5. Dec 3, 2003
    msbweiland

    msbweiland Member

    Yakima, WA
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
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    80
    HMM, need any help with this? I'd be interested in doing what I can. :D
     
  6. Dec 3, 2003
    ScottP66CJ

    ScottP66CJ Member

    SoCal
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    Oct 16, 2002
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    What harmonic balancer pickup were you guys going to use? What application?

    Please let me know how I can help in this endevor. I am willing and able. :beer:
     
  7. Dec 3, 2003
    ScottP66CJ

    ScottP66CJ Member

    SoCal
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
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    OK I just answered my own question by going back and rereading the post. You are going to start with S10 crank pickup assemblies.

    Just throwing this out there, does anyone know if all crank sensors send the same volt and/or amp signal to the computer? Just want to make sure the computer will be able to read the sensor correctly.
     
  8. Dec 3, 2003
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
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    I'm game, send me the balancer and the slugs (magnets) and tell me where you want them in relation to the crankshaft keyway and I will get on it. What are we going to use for the sensor for the bracket I'm going to make, I really need to know what to get or use so that I have it to build the bracket with. I'm kinda of excited about getting to work on this thing.
    I have always thought that this would wake the 225 up real well. The only other thing I was wondering is does the intake manifold on the 4.3 work like the 225 as far as being a dual plane manifold with the runners leading to the right cylinders when comparing the 2 motors.
     
  9. Dec 3, 2003
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Ava, MO
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    Sep 20, 2002
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    5,085
    I was wondering about manifolds - will we be able to use the original, or need an adapted 4BBL?
     
  10. Dec 3, 2003
    Dan66cj5

    Dan66cj5 Member

    Oregon
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    Feb 20, 2003
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    235
    I was talking to a friend.. and he told me about this MSD product.. Its a coil pack conversion, and it would replace the distributor. It comes with a distributor plug that does 3 things: drives the oil pump, plugs the hole, and has a sensor for the computer that sends the pulses the computer needs. But he told me he only knows MSD has it for the small blocks.. but maybe they got it for buicks too ! Now, would this thing do the trick ?
     
  11. Dec 4, 2003
    ScottP66CJ

    ScottP66CJ Member

    SoCal
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    Oct 16, 2002
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    59
    It probably would, but for us "budget minded" guys that would probably not be a solution. But for those that are looking for an upgrade for the igition also that might work. I kind of doubt that MSD has one for the odd fire though.
     
  12. Dec 4, 2003
    mruta

    mruta I drank with Billy!

    Downers Grove, IL
    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
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    422
    Scott, we are going to do something totally custom here using a McRuff bracket, modified Dauntless harmonic balancer and a generic sensor. I think that the sensor we need is a Chrysler VSS but I am waiting for a verification on that.

    I'm almost positive we'll end up reusing the original 2BBL manifold although it may require a spacer.

    Something to consider- many people value the Dauntless V6 for its ability to idle down to a very low RPM with the heavy flywheel. With the TBI setup, the idle air control motor isn't going to allow that with the factory GM calibration. I think that a custom burn might allow it to idle slower although I have no idea how well that would work due to reversion in the intake. Also, the guy I know who did this to his engine said it didn't do much to increase power although it did make it run better.

    mruta
     
  13. Dec 4, 2003
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Ava, MO
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    I'm not looking for HP gain so much as better all round starting/idling in cold weather especially. Not having a working choke is a real pain...
     
  14. Dec 4, 2003
    ScottP66CJ

    ScottP66CJ Member

    SoCal
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    Ok, help me out here. What does reversion in the intake mean?
     
  15. Dec 4, 2003
    Mcruff

    Mcruff Earlycj5 Machinist

    Albertville, AL
    Joined:
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    Mike I also think that we should shoot for using a TBI setup off of a Chevy ASTRO van instead of an S-10 , because all the ASTRO vans I have ever seen and the (2) I owned had 4.3 Vortec engines in them where as the S-10's had 4 cylinder and the 2.8 and 4.3 v6's in them, I think for someone scrounging the yards it would be easier to spot knowing thats the only motor available in the application. Reversion is caused by the overlap in th camshaft, when an exhaust or intake valve somewhere else in the firing order stalls or slows the intake charge elsewhere in the motor and actually causes the motor to suck some of the fuel somewhere else that it is not needed at that time, low Rpm is usually the culprit on highly tuned intake and carburetion systems. This is the best way I know to explain it!!

    Mike I also need to know if the 3 sensors are contained (shielded in brass, copper or plastic)) and designed to be pressed in the balancer are they going to be epoxied in place, and the epoxy is the shielding medium.
     
  16. Dec 4, 2003
    vanguard

    vanguard Guest

    If its helpful, I purchased Novak's book on installing fuel injected engines, if you guys have picked a head guru, I would be happy to send it along.

    Not sure how helpful it would be though.
     
  17. Dec 4, 2003
    ScottP66CJ

    ScottP66CJ Member

    SoCal
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    Oct 16, 2002
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    I agree with going for the Astrovan 4.3. Those are all over the place.
     
  18. Dec 4, 2003
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
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    11,595
    Vortec V-6's are not standard TBI. They are a modified port injection system that require too many inputs for what you want to do. In '86 The Astro's became TBI. Not sure what year they quit but would say early to mid '90's I believe when the Vortec's came out which would be around '95-'96 or thereabouts. The Vortec 4.3 I have for another project is a '96 and is out of an S-10 pickup. Astro's are everywhere and should be able to pick up a trashed one for pretty cheap or find them in the U-pull-it yards. Nickmil.
     
  19. Dec 4, 2003
    ehauff

    ehauff What? What? What?

    Cheyenne, Wy
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2002
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    71
    How about the gm 4 cyl in the s-10 pickups? Smaller injector, might help. Simpler to i think. Like a late 80's? just an idea.
     
  20. Dec 4, 2003
    James P. Enderwies

    James P. Enderwies Sponsor

    Lake Havasu City, AZ
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    747
    Mcruff: Fellow 9" SB owner, I agree totally! Funny thing, when I first talked to the PO of my Jeep, he said he put an HEI on it. I ask if he had the orig. dist.. He said he would look for it. He couldn't find it! I'm glad he didn't! I love the HEI! It's the same thing I have on my Yukon, except the Yukon has a seperate coil. Very simple and reliable.

    I guess I'm going "retro" in my old age. I like things simple. The old 2G works fine and I know them like the "back of my hand"! From the old Jeeps that I drove, not owned but drove, these :v6: are a little hot rod! :D

    My Yukon had TBI on it and it has worked flawsely since I've owned it. If it had a carb, I would have probablly rebuilt it twice and maybe even replaced it once. My cousin (we ordered 2 Yukons, same car, same time, same dealer) has over 100,000 miles on his and the TBI is still going strong. Can't beat that for reliability! :D
     

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