Couple of questions about what you see in these pics???

Hi all,
These pics are are of the 72 CJ5 I am restoring. I have a couple of questions about what you see here.

1) Are these brackets/rods bent due to the amount of sag in this body. (See earlier post about body sag). Or are they bent due to a normal occurrence with CJ ownership like leaning on them while working on the engine?






2) At some point this CJ had headers installed. When I picked up the jeep it appeared one muffler/header hung lower than the other. I attributed this to the body sagging over one side more than the other. Today I jacked up the body and supported it so both sides are even. These measurements show the pass side hanging much lower than the drivers. Is this normal or am I missing something?

Pass side



Drivers side (bottom of flange is at top of pic)



Any ideas/comments on either situation?

Mike

 

Never seen the strut rods bent like that, doubt it was caused by said sag though. Looks to even.
I lean on mine all the time and have never bent them.

I think the headers are ok. Does either one look like its bent?

edit: Looking at the strut rod pic again, it almost looks like they used the rods to support the engine for some reason.

 

i dont know how much of a conclusion you can draw by measuring the frame from the floor with the Jeep still sitting on the springs (or even on old tires that may be uneven due to size or PSI)... i would think the springs could be causing some of the sag. one side may be more uneven. on some vehicles you may consider the side that the t-case or gas tank is located because over time weak stock springs could have sagged more on the side with more weight on a daily basis... one set could even be kinked. did you check the springs for sag all the way around? I know that some body shops will put a vehicle on the frame machine for about $50-$100 and tell you if your fame is bent or cracked and even give you a print out of the measurements/findings. i see your reason for worry, your initial measurements would have me concerned. some of the older CJ's do have a rep for weak frames and are boxed and reinforced during rebuilds.

*i know you said you jacked it up to measure but in the pic the rear tires are still on the floor and if you jacked it up under the diffs the frame is still supported by the springs.

just my $.02, hope it works out for you

 

IIRC the original rods are solid and straight. They are nominally taut with the cowl and the grille brackets. If they have enough slack to bend, then the cowl has come closer to the grille somehow - it would not be surprsing that the cowl had settled over the frame causing slack in the rods, considering the condition of the body mounting you've shown in your previous posts. Whether they bent on their own or someone bent them is mostly irrelevant.

Re the headers, well, it is what it is. The settling/sag of the body could pull the collectors down with it (by attachment to the rest of the exhaust piping), but there's no way to tell that from the pictures. You're just going to have to trust your senses and judgement to decide what's happening with the exhaust.

 

Thanks for the replies. The entire front half of the tub appears to have sagged and I think this is attibuting to the rods bedning. I guess I'll know for sure once I pull the tub off and repair the floors and mounts.

The headers were measured with the bottom of the chassis by the rear spring mount on both side being the same height from the floor and the chassis level from side to side. Further inspection looks like I may have 2 different headers. Again I'll get a better look at them with the tub off the frame.

The frame looks solid and I see no signs of collision or bending in the frame.

Again thanks for the replies. Was mostly looking to brainstorm.


Mike

 

My guess is that it might be just the opposite, the bent rods are pulling the front in.

Just thinking off the top of my head, but what about a bad motor mount on the side where the header is lower allowing the engine to twist or sit lower?

Jim

 

I haven't checked the engine mounts yet but I will take a look.

Mike

 

Those rods are too rigid to "sag", those were bent by force. Possibly some PO might have pried against them with a 2x4 or something while trying to move the engine around a little while working on it. And didn't the left side rods have a factory bend in them, only that bend went up instead of down, to clear the heater box? This photo is of a '62 CJ5.

 

IIRC (!) the rods changed between '71 and '72, with '71 and earlier being what's shown in rondog's pic. The '72 and later were plain, straight steel rods, threaded on the grille end and flattened at the cowl end.

 

If the rods bent that much due to body sag, wouldnt there be a wrinkle in the fenders? On the comment about the different rod sizes. Perhaps those are intermediate or older rods that had to be bent to get them to fit?

Karl

 

There doesn't seem to be a wrinkle in the fenders but it is hard to tell as they are beat to hell. If you look at this picture you can see that the body seems to be folding at the corner of the door. The wrinkle in the metal looks like it was from a hit but the more I look at it I am starting to think it is folding on itself.

 

If it were "folding in on itself" and the grill is perpendicular to the frame, the rods would have to be longer because the firewall/cowl is farther away (at least from what I can tell in the picture). That is indeed a strange wrinkle you have there. Maybe this Jeep was rolled and repaired? That might explain the wrinkle and the body sagging. I just reviewed the pics on your website. You have uncommon tenacity for repairing the body on your Jeep. All that hard work is gonna pay off.

Karl

 

Could be. My thought was that the body at the cowl is actually sitting lower wrt the frame; ie pushed straight down. This would shorten the line between the top of the cowl and the top of the grille, which normally has a downhill angle toward the grille of about 10 or 15 degrees. It would also explain the wrinkle in the side panel at the door openings - the back half of the body is at its nominal height wrt the frame, and the cowl is lower.

 

My plan for this week is to get the front fenders and hood off the jeep. Then I can get a better look at mounts and the cowl and try to figure out if it is bent/twisted or just fatigued from abuse.

Karl- I moved to NC from Newfoundland, Canada so I am too familiar with rust and unfortunately have had too many cars that needed extensive rebuilding. To me no vehicle is too far gone as long as the basic shape is there

Mike

 

Ron's right, my 66 CJ5 passenger side rod has a bend in it near the end that attaches to the cowl goes out straight until it passes the air filter (oil bath) then angles down to the radiator support. the one on the drivers side is straight.
Eddy

 

I think your rods might be swapped Eddy. I've always seen the straight rod on the pass. side, and the bent one on the drivers side. Always thought the bend had something to do with clearing the heater box on the drivers firewall. But what do I know.

 

I've seen some bent rods that looked factory, but the rods on my 67 are both straight. Actually, one looks factory and one sorta looks homemade to me, I always want to look at other early CJs and see if they had a slightly different appearance between the left and right rods.

My first instinct on the headers was a mismatched pair. That is, from to different applications that the previous owner just happened to have that worked.

Also my first instinct on the rods are on-purpose bends by the previous owner--whether something to do with the engine swap, or to make service easier, or because they weren't the right length and had to be bent to fit, hard to guess....they could have been bent in an accident and then the grill replaced....I am sure it would show evidence of such an impact to bend those rods....I lean on mine all the time with no ill effects..

 

So, sorry for the sidetrack, what prompted the move?

Karl