Saginaw steering conversion questions

I have been looking at just how my Saginaw steering conversion will fit on to my early CJ5 frame.

The box I have is a 6 turn manual most likely from a 67-69 Camaro or Chevelle. I have a proper pitman arm (I need to reclock it slightly)

I'm basically going to be doing the same as the advanced adapters kit with out buying anything from their kit I already have all the tierod ends I haven't bought the tierods yet.

I will most likely buy the mounting plate from Advanced unless I can get a pattern for one from someone (I would rather cut and fit my own)

One of the things I'd like to ask about is the angle of the box on the horn. What is allowed. Can I for instance run the column through the center of the cross member (using a welded in tube to reinforce the hole) and have the top mounting ear below the level of the frame horn. It would be approx. a 12-14 degree angle on the steering column and pitman arm shaft compared to the top of the frame rail.

I know this would angle the pitman arm up some that would put my pitman arm about 2" higher at the tierod then if it was level to the ground.

I wish I knew someone with a jeep that had a Saginaw conversion already completed I could look at.

Any thoughts guys who have been through this??

 

You can run the saginaw at any angle you want. They mounted them with the input shaft pointing almost straight up on minivans.

 

Good point so I won't run into any problems with the angle/arc the pitman arm will be traveling. I guess the next thing would be to worry about the angle of the short short Tierod. My Pitman arm is arrow straight. So as I measured the pitman arm ends up about 2" higher then if I mounted the box level. But then In Lubel's book he shows his box mounted MUCH higher on the rail then I plan so I guess it will still work.

I have ordered the Advanced adapters Jeep tech book and Catalog which are supposed to cover this swap in some detail. Hopefully they show what is recommened.

I have been looking at the angles and if I can mount it with the column starting out at a 12-14 degree angle it will make the column connection to my origional column much starighter and cleaner then some of the options I have seen. I would like to get the coumn up and out of my way across the motor mount as much as possible. That way I have a clear area for my header.

 

take a look here for more info on saginaw conversion. there are some very accurate tech. drawings of the mounting plate you may be looking for. as well as some other tips, drawings etc.

http://www.earlycj5.com/tech/steering/saginaw/saginaw.shtml

 

Steve I have read that and looked at the drawing. what it doesn't show that I can see is at what angle if any the whole thing can be mounted. Does the pitman arm shaft have to be 90 degrees to the earth? or can it be slightly angled towards the back? On my Chevelle the steering box is in line with the column and mounted at and angle so I guess this works! In fact I just measured it and it sits at about a 14 degree angle just like I would like to do with the Jeep. Now the Chevelle pitman arm has a slight drop to it and it's shorter so it doesn't gain as much as the straight one I have for the jeep but I only need about 12 degrees to make my idea work out. SO I guess unless I see something in advanced adapters lit. telling me not to I'll plan on mounting it with a slight angle.

 

I used Mcruffs mounting plate design. I had it laser cut at a local shop. However if I did it again I would make my own because I think I paid a little too much and it is a very simple design.

I mounted the top of the plate flush with the top of the framerail. The tie rods clear nicely and the box is nice and protected. The only thing that angling the box will do is allow your steering shaft to be at better angles and you may not have to notch the motor mount as much.



Check out my webshots link in my sig for pics with measurements of where I placed the plate

 

The mounting plate drawing I made is slightly wrong, been meaning to send Sparky or Joel a new copy, 1 of the holes on the top edge is dimensioned wrong, its off about a 1/16" in both directions. If you need an actual CAD drawing I can email you one and you can get a viewer from Irfanview for CAD drawings for free that will let you print them at any scale you want.

I can also send you pictures of my setup if needed.

 

Mike the drawing will not be nessisary BUT I would love photo's of your setup.

I'm about 3 light years past most people when it comes to metal fab. I spent 14 years of my life as a custom knifemaker working in .0005 tolerances making folders and switchblades. If you would like to see some of my "metal work" go to:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=197184

click on the photo's for a larger view. I have a milling machine and metal cutting bandsaws and 2X72" custom made belt grinders (you can see my machines here:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=464820

I even made these. But I always take the chance to learn from someone who has gone before.

To Joe I'm hoping NOT to notch my cross member but to drill a 1.5" diameter hole through it and insert a .093 thich wall tube welded in place to pass the cloumn through at a slight (approx 12-14 degree) angle Hopefully this will get me over the motor plate and keep the cloumn out of the way of my Header.

I have decided to do a full mock up on all of this before anything is welded inplace. The only thing I will have to do I can't really easily change is the hole in the cross member (well I can cut the hole without putting in the tube) to check geometry and if need be weld the holes up I guess.

I love this kind of stuff makes me want to do even more.

 

Are you strong enough to hold your jeep up against that belt sander?? Looks more suited to knife making. .0005 tolerances are a little tight for saginaw conversions, they ain't rocket science. I can't think of why you would need a milling machine or a metal cutting bandsaw for this project.

Don't cut yourself.

3 light years?? WOW

JB

 

beautiful blades mark! i haven't made edge tools since 1979 and even then they weren't as nice as yours.

keep asking questions here. the folks here talked me through my saginaw conversion and it's tight with no play or little or no bumpsteer.

my gearbox angles up toward the back of the cj and i converted to a single tierod and one draglink.

btw is that an american husky on your blade site?

 

JB I can certinly hold a boxing plate or even a front cross member against the grinder. As to the milling machine, Just because you can't think of what to do with one doesn't mean I can't!

You wouldn't think having a metal cutting band saw to make cutting out things like a boxing plate or a steering box mount a little easier. Or are you one of those "I got a torch I can cut or weld anything" kind of guys?

Just because I can work at .0005 of an inch doesn't mean I have to.

I can tell you the guy who does my welding says he has never seen anyone do setup and fit the way I do. And he manages one of the larger Airgas stores. Every time he does welding for me he tells me how my fit jigging and setup makes his job so easy that he looks forward to my next project.

I take pride in my workmanship. It doesn't matter if it is a 160Mph Control Line Rat Racer model Airplane or a $1200.00 3 blade pocket knife I'm making I try to do the very best job possible. I intend on doing the same with my Jeep. Just as I did with my 67 Mustang and so far on My 66 Chevelle (which sadly is stalled partially completed)

I used the belt grinder to grind the rivets out of the replacement left 2A motor mount (since it had been torched off leaving the frame section inside) I am installing on my CJ5 frame so my engine will mount properly and so it will look closer to the way a 48 CJ2A bodied Jeep should look instead of the cobbled up mess some Idot with a welder did in the late 50's. I will also use it to shape the angle iron brace that is going to help mount that motor mount to the frame. That is after I rought cut it out on my metal cutting band saw. Should I decide the slots need to be slightly longr I'll put it in the vise under my milling machine and cut them so they look like the factory did it.

I completely left out the Lathe, the Flat grinder, The wall mounted wire wheel, the 8" cutoff wheel machine, the wall mounted Buffing machines, The two drill presses, and the 6foot tall Craftsman roll away full of stuff along with all the other crap in my 800 square foot little shop I might use on my Jeep. Heck I can even do leather work. Maybe I'll hand stitch the new seat covers.

Funny thing is the one thing I don't own is a welder or a torch (well not a cutting torch) I do have a forge and a heet treating oven. No telling what I might do with those.

Mark W.

Glad we could share

 

Well said, Mark. I hope we can see your work when it's done.

 

Here are some pics of McRuff's kit:

 

Hey Mark,

Where are you located?

 

Barry I'm in Silverton, Oregon about 14 miles NE of Salem. Born here and will most likely die here LOL.

Joe Thanks for the Photo's they show the steering box mounted a little lower then I want to. As well as what appears to be very parallel to the ground.

I notice the front cross member is highly modified I'm hoping to just put a tube through mine.



Thanks Guys I'll post photo's of what I come up with. Hopefully before the end of the month. If we keep working the way we are the money shouldn't be a problem.

BOY do I love construction season just wish I had some time to do something!