New Cj5 Owner - Steering Box Help - Previous Owner Did Something...

Good morning! New CJ5 owner here, been wanting one for awhile and just brought home this cosmetically nice, but mechanically challenged 1974.



Mechanically-challenged I can deal with, I've got tools and a shop. And a Haynes manual, which is a little light, but better than nothing. I am starting from 0 on my knowledge base here, and already things are looking a little funky...

The steering is atrocious, and there appears to have been a bodged power steering installation at some point. There's some very fugly welding, some creatively modified brackets, and a crusty leaf spring shackle here:





From what I can tell, based on some looking around online, it sort of looks like someone may have installed a later ('76+) steering box and brackets, but left the earlier (1974) spring shackle mounts. And cut & paste to fit. Am I correct? Or is there something else wrong here?

My initial thought is to get a new power steering box bracket for a '76+, and switch the spring shackle mount over to the '76+ style. Will this work, or is the frame different in this area?

I have a 220 VAC welder, so I can do any repairs needed here. It looks like the '74 power steering box may be different, and I'd prefer not to buy a new box. Like I said, I'm starting from scratch with my CJ5 knowledge, and I have no documentation as to what was done on this Jeep prior to it ending up in my hands.

 

No, it's not. You need a Factory Service Manual, ASAP.

Welcome, you'll find a lot of good advice here.

As you assess the steering, include the king pins, tie rods, wheel bearings, etc. Also toe-in and camber of the front axle.

 

Yep!!!

That shackle(s) is/are no doubt a BIG part of the steering problem. I would fix those first, all of them, and then see what the steering feels like. Saginaw boxes are usually very good.

And WELCOME ABOARD the forum.

 

I agree that the Haynes manual is not very good, and you should obtain a real Factory Service Manual covering the 1974 Jeep.

Pretty sketchy looking weld job, I suspect the frame may have been torqued enough crack apart and this was a repair. That does look to be a later steering box, but if set up correctly with a better mount it should work.

 

Introductions | ECJ5 (earlycj5.com)

 

Thanks for the welcomes, and replies. So, if I keep the newer box (which this appears to have) , do I need to switch to the newer spring shackles? Any issues with doing this? Is it a matter of drilling new holes, welding something on, or what?

I agree, I need to get a factory service manual, but for stuff like this, where it's clearly not as it rolled off the assembly line in 1974, I need some guidance.

There's definitely stuff going on with the caster, possibly the toe, and the steering damper. The Haynes manual shows an optional anti-sway bar, which is not present here. There appears to be differing opinions online as to whether an anti-sway bar or a track bar does much for these.

Need to check the ball joints. I know it's going to need new tie rod ends and connecting rod.

Additional pictures:





Here's the pump, sitting across the front axle temporarily.

 

From the outside. Looks like they notched and welded in the steering box bracket. You can see the notch job just to the left of the upper spring shackle mount on the frame

 

That Saginaw steering box bracket appears to be the same as what later model CJs used from the factory.
They're OK at best. Make sure there are no cracks in the bracket especially around the mounting holes (fairly common issue).

 

OK is fine with me. I do see there are some aftermarket brackets that seem to be stronger than the OEM ones. I need to replace this OEM bracket anyway, as it's been welded and cut up.

What spring shackle brackets do I use? Can I use the later ones?

Something like this?

 

The windshield slopes back like a '76 & up CJ5. Maybe a later jeep titled as a '74? Does it have a built-in toolbox under the front passenger seat?

 

"Need to check the ball joints."

Not sure what you are calling "ball joints" but that Jeep doesn't have any.

 

It absolutely has ball joints..... its an intermediate.

 

My bad, haven't ever owned an intermediate, and from what I could see of the axle in the picture I thought it had knuckles. I can't be correct all the time

 

I'm new to the Jeep world, as I said, so please excuse my potentially incorrect usage of terminology. On every other vehicle I've ever owned, the things at the top and bottom of the spindles on the front wheels are called ball joints. But, if they're kingpins, then thank you for the correction.

Front suspension:



Sounds like we can't even really agree on what year it is. I'll check under the passenger seat. Right now, it's full of spare parts that came with it, which I need to move.

 

Open knuckle D30. Moog makes some relatively inexpensive heavy duty ball joints for these. I'm uncertain of the current availability, but they also made an adjustable upper ball joint so you could adjust the camber and caster.

 

'76 and up have a frame that gets wider as it goes to back to the rear wheels. That's a sure-fire sign. In general, more pictures of things like the transfer case, frame rails, rear axle/suspension, dashboard, under the passenger seat, tailgate, ...etc. will help identify the year.

 

You weren't incorrect about ball joints I was. I have owned and worked on a lot of Jeeps but all of them were older than yours.

That collector for the header looks like a giant hand at first glance

 

I'm thinking the welding on the outer frame horn was for reinforcement or to fix a crack. I don't see much penetration in that weld. You may want to grind it down and go over it again.

 

Your Jeep has some mixing and matching of parts from different generations. Your tub is correct for a ‘74 due to the embossed “Jeep” in the high location, but it has a ‘76-up windshield frame that is narrower at the top. Not enough detail photos, but likely the matching ‘74 frame.
Those are OEM AMC steering box brackets, but they weren’t the strongest design. Adding larger tires/wheels and power steering often caused the frame to rip and tear just like yours shows. Both power and manual Saginaw steering boxes interchange on the same brackets, and the steering boxes are common to most ‘60s through early ‘90s GM mid and full size vehicles. The “fast” and slower steering ratios are available depending on donor vehicle, but your box is probably just fine to reuse. Your Jeep likely has 1-3/4” wide springs, though later Jeeps had wider leaves. Maybe those are 2” wide? Those front axle U-bolts look like a mix of parts.
You likely need to cut off all those perches and brackets and clean up all those bad welds and repairs. Find someone that knows how to weld, unless you are a very good welder. These cracked areas need to be repaired correctly or they will fail again. Don’t skimp in this area!
There are factory cast steering box brackets, and several very good aftermarket brackets. Its a good idea to also install a lower steering box brace that runs over to the right frame rail to keep things from flexing (fatigue). Once you get all those previous repairs fixed, and make sure your spring bushings and shackles are on good shape, you’ll be good to start addressing other areas.
-Donny

 

Thanks for the good info. I didn't know, for example, about the difference in spring width. Likely these are 1-3/4" wide, I'll measure. I have 25 years' experience welding, and have done roll cages, frame repairs, unibody repairs, body swaps, etc on other cars. Welding on a simple C channel should be pretty straightforward.

The shackle on the passenger side looks pretty rough, so it will be replaced, too. And replace all the bushings.