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Stock Timing Gears And Chain Set, V8

Discussion in 'Early Jeep Restoration and Research' started by FlatlanderCJ5, May 3, 2022.

  1. May 3, 2022
    FlatlanderCJ5

    FlatlanderCJ5 Member

    Wichita, KS
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2022
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    72
    To make a long story out of a short question, I am soon going to replace my timing chain and gear set on a 1972 360 V8.
    I started doing a little research on a replacement set, my engine is out of the jeep and I am going to do a few things with it before it goes back in the frame. One suggestion was to replace the timing set while it's easy to do. I looked at a lot of different sets for AMC V8 and wondered why there is so much difference in price for what seems like all the same stuff. I went over to a couple of AMC forums and started reading all of their inputs an opinions. Man that turned into a cat fight. I didn't know it was such a touchy subject? One guy even said something about another man's mother...and some army boots. Wow.
    From what I gather about the new replacements from, take your pick manufacturer, they are all wrong. There was a lot of talk about oil grooves and chamfers and thrust washers and front and rear cam bias. Dang all I wanted was a good recommendation. One man who must have taken his medication and sounded rational, suggested a set from Team Grand Wagoneer. I looked at that set on their website and they claim it's a direct replacement for OE TIMING CHAIN SET PART# J3185270.
    Without looking for my mom's army boots, has anyone used this set from Team Grand Wagoneer and did it work without modification? I plan on contacting them before ordering but thought I might find someone with practical experience. Thanks.
     
  2. May 3, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    No practical experience. Sorry.

    If you want practical experience, I'd suggest reading posts from SC/397 on ifsja.org. http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=183822 He's also present on the AMC forum.

    I would only buy something from TGW that was specifically for restoration of a Wagoneer, and not available elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2022
  3. May 3, 2022
    FlatlanderCJ5

    FlatlanderCJ5 Member

    Wichita, KS
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2022
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    72
    My engine is from a 1972 Wagoneer. I will read the info you supplied. Thanks.
     
  4. May 3, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Does not matter. A 360 is a 304 with a bigger bore and larger valves.

    You're welcome.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2022
  5. May 4, 2022
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb 2020 Sponsor

    Jasper Georgia
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    Nov 24, 2019
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    1,100
    x2 on timgr reading link. all the info there appears to be very spot on. Study it carefully. The oiling groves on the back of the cam gear is an important issue.
    I just recently bought a timing set from Summit for my 304. The set I purchased has a selection of keyways for alternating the valve timing if you want. it is a double roller set too. I have not installed it yet though, so cannot comment on the quality of it. Look in the intermediate forum here, you will find quite a bit of discussion on the matter of what set to buy. I think it was about 6 months back.
    I will try to get more specifics and a photo for you.
     
  6. May 4, 2022
    Keys5a

    Keys5a Sponsor

    Florida Keys
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    The original cam sprocket used in the AMC V8 timing set had nylon teeth that were supposed to keep things quiet. These lasted a relatively short time before chunks broke away, allowing the timing chain to become excessively loose and sometimes wearing deep grooves in the timing cover, if not jumping time.
    There are a bunch of junk timing sets on the market that might last 5,000 miles before your distributor drive gear gets eaten away from lack of oil. Don’t replace your timing set with an OEM nylon tooth gear, or the cheap timing sets. I always have used Cloyes True Roller sets. I have also installed a Melling set that was made in the 1970s, and it was good too. I can’t vouch for the “new” Melling sets.
    The problem is AMC designed an oil passage through the front of the cam, intended to supply oil to the distributor drive gear. Most aftermarket cam sprockets don’t allow for this oil passage, or have the groove where it doesn’t line up to allow adequate flow. The Cloyes sets are properly made. There may be other brands that have it right, but most do not. Your engine will run fine for a while, but damage is being done from these cheap sets.
    The AMC V8’s oiling system leaves a lot to be desired, and they often develop a noisy valvetrain as they wear. In most of these engines I have built, I tap into a main oil galley in the front of the block and run a “priority” oil line past the lifter bores to the rear of the block to make sure the crankshaft main journals get plenty of oil.
    -Donny
     
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  7. May 4, 2022
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Regarding the nylon gears, I believe all the Detroit engines from this era got nylon cam gears. (The crank gear is iron). These cam gears have an aluminum hub and a ring of nylon teeth, and as Donny points out, they were used to reduce engine noise. I'm certain the 225 got a nylon gear - I have seen those. I don't think that wear is the central issue with these, but instead the plastic does not hold up in this application. The 225 gears I've seen (in the 70s!) fell apart; chunks of teeth came out of the gear, and the engine jumped time / would not keep time.

    I suspect essentially none of these nylon gears remain today, having all succumbed to the usual embrittlement of plastics with age, or wear, or both.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2022
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  8. May 4, 2022
    Ol Fogie

    Ol Fogie 74 cj5 304, 1943 mb 2020 Sponsor

    Jasper Georgia
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    This happened to my 74, with the 304. The jeep had just went out of factory warranty. (36 months) it only had about 30k miles on it. Bam it would not start. All the nylon had already worn off and all that was left was the steel gear. I replaced the set with a NAPA set with all steel gears. Still in the motor with about 120k miles on it. It needs replaced though now, it has a lot of backlash.
     
  9. May 6, 2022
    maurywhurt

    maurywhurt Member 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Western North...
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    I used a Cloyes True Roller model 9-1132 double-roller timing chain set when rebuilding my Dauntless 7 years ago, and have had zero problems with it.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2022
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