The B3 3b Attempt

Huh, I was modeling leaf springs this morning to fill out my model from James thread..
Are we using cj5 front springs on this?
20" on each side measured along the main leaf to bushing centers?
5.25" free arch?

 

Ok this is what I had noted from the dimensions from Rich on James thread. Foreground is the reverse, with mcruff shackles (what I had a model of) background (passenger side is stock, with mcruff shackles)

 

Wrangler springs.

 

YJ?
I checked a 95 and it's about 2.5" longer in both directions. You will probably want to have more caster with a longer shackle or shorter front spring hanger.

 

Spent some time last night going through the garage filing cabinet rereading old magazine articles that I saved on jeep suspensions. Then more than a couple YouTube videos and forums. Rethinking the shackle reversal. Not getting cold feet. Just not sure it’s what’s best for a mostly trail jeep. My main reason for always wanting to do it was to create that slider type of deal up front to help slide the nose up onto obstacles instead of jamming a shackle into the obstacle. Most if not all of the benefits from the conversion seem to be with respect to on road ride quality. I knew this but still wanted the slider thing up front.

Main thing that has me on the fence is the rearward travel of the axle when approaching an obstacle. Maybe it’s not a worthy concern??? The reversal allows the axle to get pushed backward before starting to climb where the factory set up helps to force the axle forward. And jeep left it that way until the TJ came along except for the A1 and couple years at the start of the cj5 line.

I dunno. It’s an old topic with pros and cons on both side.

 

For my Jeep the on road benefits are much greater than I expected. Off road I’m happy that the axle isn’t jamming backwards into the spring hanger. No more bent and broken springs.

I’m sure a big part of the improvement is in getting rid of the Rocky Road YJ kit.

 

I made up some better supports to hold the frame up while doing the suspension work. They're a little hoakie still but much better than the cinder blocks. And they are offset and out of the way for measuring and working.

This is as close as I could get it in both directions, longitudinally and site to side at the center area of the frame. Then I dropped points on the floor with a plumb bob at the radiator crossmember and the rear crossmember (not the rear bumper crossmember, remember). Pleasantly surprised to find it very decently square at these points. The frame horns (what's left of them) are a different story. I'll try to fix that later.

The Wrangler spring hangers are 3.5" wide outside. I'm starting at the rear springs so, the frame is 2" wide back there. I marked the new hangers for easy reference with centerline and then 1" on either side of that to line up on the frame.

Started thinking and went back to frame with the plumb bob again. I dropped 6 points on the floor from the outside of the frame rails, 3 on each side. 2 near the radiator x member, 2 near the center and 2 at the back. Stretched a string on the floor from the front point to the back on the right side and the center mark was right on. Driver side had the center mark off almost .25". So, going back to right side, I made marks .75 offset to the outside of the first marks to allow for the additional width of the spring hangers. Took a long straight piece of metal I had cut and drew a line on the floor from back to front and a bit long at the front for the frame horn extensions to come. the right side is the "master" side so measure measure measure and drew the line for the left side. Now I have 2 parallel lines on the floor to hopefully help keep the spring hangers lined up and the new frame horns.

I'm going through the math about shackle location and stuff but, I'm also going to check a friends' YJ next week and measure some stuff for starting points. For now, I clamped a hanger for the rear spring as far back as I could to where the frame starts to curve upward. I'd like to maybe go another inch to the back but not sure it's worth the work. TBD I guess.

 

I found a digram of the YJ frame dimensions. I'm using that for my initial set up in terms of hanger locations relative to each other. I am modifying the stock dimensions a bit by decreasing the distance between spring hanger bolt center line and the shackle mount bolt center line by 1.00 inch to hopefully give me a few more degrees of shackle angle. Moving it 1 inch should add about 10 degrees. Hoping to end up around 25 degrees. This could all change if I end up buying new springs.

I drew more lines on the hangers to give me easy reference to the centerlines of the bolt holes for the springs.

I clamped the hangers onto the frame for the front of the rear springs. Used the plumb bob to check alignment with my marks on the floor. Check. Used the torpedo level to get them plumb and level.

Then I had to run to Ace for more alignment tools. I got 2 pcs of 1/2 solid rod to sort of further check the alignment of spring hangers. I used a store level to be sure they were straight. 9/16 rod would have been better but maybe too tight.......and it was not available....and I could find nothing else in the store that would better serve the purpose. Ground rods were not straight but cheaper. No curtain rods were right. Didn't want wood. The 1/2 inch rod has to suffice. When I got home I put one of them in place passing through the holes of both hangers, the digital level shows 0.00 degrees on the rod and it looks right. I'll used the second piece when I get to the front spring hangers. Also bought a stick of electrical metal conduit of proper size to help align the rear shackle hangers. I measured and marked for the right side shackle hanger and clamped it on loosely. Needs adjusted and then I'll move to left rear shackle hanger. I scribed lines through the powder coating on both of the rear shackle hangers.

So far everything seems to be holding square and level but I've only just begun.

I'm hoping to clamp everything in place and check it all as a whole before tacking anything in place but I may run out of 11R clamps before I get that far. Sounds like a good excuse to buy more.

My question of the post.........So, does magic marker ink contaminate welds?

 

I wouldn't think ink in that small amount would.

 

I made this stand for the little homeowner grade construction laser to sit on. Easily adjustable in height so I can adjust it for individual areas of the frame modifications when necessary. I can also totally disassemble it for easy storage or transportation and I can use it for other projects around the house. Another application will be for use in my barn repairs for which I might make another mounting bracket out of angle iron, 2 more nuts welded to that (like you see welded to hunk of heavy round stock at the base of this thing) and 2 holes drilled in the vertical part of the angle. I could then screw that to a post in the barn or anywhere really. But I digress.




Here is the shot of the rod being used to help check the alignment of the rear spring hangers.

 

I've had that chunk of steel for at least 15 years. Finally found a real good use for it besides just holding stuff down. Never throw anything away folks.

I'm guessing I'll end up with about something like 8" of additional wheelbase after all of this. Wondering if it's worth the work really. Good thing I enjoy the process and the learning. Although it seems very tempting to buy an already built and proven rig that recently came on the block. Wifey would most likely not approve of that though.

 

$0.02
I feel like you need to box the frame before working on spring hangers.

No real reason, just seems like the heat and all plus having access to all sides.

 

Thought about that but after building the '71, boxing the frame first makes it more difficult to access areas like transmission crossmember and such. And once the hangers are burnt in, they may get bolted as well. I like to stick bolts through the inside of the frame, weld the heads to the frame, thus essentially creating a stud. Or sometimes a nut welded to the inside for a bolt. So, right or wrong, boxing will be last for me.


sooo......do you guys prefer the photos description above or below the picture. I'm arse backwards I guess by putting above as a lead in when the rest of the publishing world puts it below. A "caption" I guess. Should I make the switch for ease of reading?

 

I wish you'd quit the posting nuances and get after it. There's a lot of wheeling to do in 25'

 

I follow with the picture after the speech, that's what @Boyink seems to do. He's the writing expert.

 

Got the right side frame on tacked on today. Came out well and lined up well in all planes as evidenced by the laser line visible in the pic. I scribed a line the length of each new frame horn 1" down from the top as an aiming point for the laser.

The left side....well.....not so good. The frame tweak reared its' ugly head on that side. I knew it was coming because it was apparent when I drew my parallel lines on the floor. It's worse than I thought and I may have to do some ugly, non uniform type work to make it okay. It won't look great but should be functional. I knew it wasn't gonna be a first class job from the git go. I just hate doing ugly work but, I gots to do what I gots to do. I'm going to try to slip that frame horn over the outside of the vertical edge of the original rail. I'll have to slice the original c channel frame at the top angle. It'll look different than the right side.

Yes. The new pieces are extra long for now until I see just where the spring hangers will land. I'll trim them down later.

After a sixer, an empty stomach and the left frame horn frustrating me, I decided to walk away for the day.





In other news, I got tired of tripping over my clamps and vice grips that had been stored in a bucket for the last few years and recently found themselves strewn around the floor in the area of this project. So, I made a rack to hang all (or most) of those things on and painted it up and hung 'er up. So far so good.

I bought 2 more 11R style clamps at horrible freight since the Irwin brand clamps are also hecho in Chinko. I'd have gladly paid the difference for Irwins if they were made here but they ain't so I took a chance on the HF units. So far so good. I might go get a few more tomorrow.

 

Finally back at it today. Burned a vacation day for pre-trip prep. Got most of that done last night so I snuck out to the shop for a spell.

Making the repair to the tweaked driver side rail wasn't as radical a repair as I had expected. I was going to slice the new frame extension and slide it over the outside of the left frame rails' vertical wall but after measuring and straight edging and thinking I decided instead to slice the old frame and see if I could get things straightened out that way rather than compromising the new metal. Unfortunately I lost my frame height a bit when I made the slice at the top edge of the frame rail so I had to go back and re-level the entire frame and check all my points I have marked on the floor to make sure everything was lined up properly ( or at least as properly as I had it before). Then I could continue with the repair. Some bending of the flap of metal I had made soon got me going in the right direction. Could have used a third hand but eventually, with one final turn of the C clamp, it came into good position. X2 check. X3 check. Then tack tack tack. Check again. Looking good as evidenced by the laser which I am finding very useful.










This was a major hurdle for me and I think I got it pretty darned good. My happy confidence will surely come back to bite but I'm going to ride with it until then. Now I can get the front spring hangers, etc laid out and when I'm happy that all of the hangers are where I want them, I'll tack them in place. Won't be long I'll have springs hanging on this heap with axles sitting on them.

 

Got the new frame horns 75% welded on. Don't look too close. I was stone sober when I did it. A couple cans of group tightener and I weld better. Richs' trail welds look better. I had her turned up trying make sure I got it burned in. I know. I know. I'm getting a grinder for Christmas. Hahaha.




Gotta make some pieces and fill in this spot on both sides along with smoothing out the underside where the box meets the frame. I'll do the filler pieces soon and get to smoothing out the underside when I take it all apart and finish weld everything.




Spring hangers and rear shackle hangers tacked on. Everything is square to my layout on the garage floor. Seems pretty decent to me although I'm not real warm and fuzzy about the levelness of it all since the frame is tweaked. I don't think it's too bad though. It may show later when the body is on but I knew this going in. I kinda goofed with the temporary brace. Got it too far front and it's in the way. I need to trim the frame horns to the point where the front bumper will sit on top the spring hanger so my front tack will need cut too. I'll put another brace farther back and remove the one that's there now.







I picked up 2 more used 5 leaf rear Wrangler springs yesterday morning. I now have all 4 but the 2 pairs have different part numbers on them. I can't seem to find a place where I can identify them in terms of spring rate by the part numbers. I'll just throw them on and see how it rides. Might end up looking for a small lift for it anyway. Time will tell. For now, I'm getting close to having a roller.

In other news, the seals for the drum pulley project finally showed up. So I have that to play with when Buford gets the best of me.

 

Not a lot happening here. But, the front axle is out getting the 5.38 gears installed. I'm soon to order axle shaft u joints and the myriad of seals and stuff for the knuckles and tubes. Anybody have any suggestions over the stock type axle tube seals? I'm new to the open knuckle stuff. I do have the new ball joints here and ready to go in.

At the other end of Buford, I've been working on high clearance U-bolt plates. The wider Wrangler springs threw me a curve ball that I should have seen coming but I can make a go of my oversight. I need to run a larger u bolt on the passenger side as the wider springs force the bolt farther inboard. So the inner bolt on that side will need to go over the end of the center section rather than the axle tube. A minor set back. I'll be ordering U-bolts shortly. When I get this end mocked up and see that things will work out, I'll weld things up some more and then turn my attention to the front axle and it's plates.

This is .25 inch thick material. I've drilled several area for plug welds in addition to the edge welds that will be done. I'll probably gusset the ears too. These things should be plenty stout. Maybe even overkill. But I'm okay with that especially when the extra weight is down low.

 

Okay. Let's play ketchup. It'll be a short game. I promise. I left off with the start of the spring plate fabrication so we'll pick it up right there. As I said a few times, I'm not getting fancy or pretty so I didn't bother blasting the old paint off this stuff. They turned out okay and are certainly HD. U bolts from UBoltsDirect got the flanged and lunchboxes 44 suspended. Not sure what will happen with shocks yet. Probably weld brackets to the housing but I left room to add a stud to the spring plates if I go that route.





These things are 1/2" thick on the bottom. Looking pretty smooth I guess. I know it's crooked in the picture. I loosened the nuts and straightened it out after the picture was taken. Not torquing anything yet. Thus is just test fitting and mocking up. I do think I made these just a bit too tall. Maybe 1/4". It's okay but I'd rather they were shorter. The ones for the front Dana 30 will be changed a bit.



Attention was then turned to the shackle reversal. With a lot of measuring and leveling and asking questions and reading stuff I came up with a spot I think is right to drill the holes through the frame for the bushing sleeve. I just tacked them in like everything else so far. The more I think about it, any changes that might needed here as far as shackle angle might have to happen up front by moving the front spring hanger forward or back. The height will probably be the height. If this position is wrong, I think it would be a mess to move the bushing. I dunno. We'll see what happens when there's weight on this thing. Kinda nervous about it but that's fun of building stuff right?