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Started On Firefly’s Clutch

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Andrew Theros, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. Apr 3, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
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    D23A3E46-C024-4464-9808-79C8219EB1C8.jpeg 6E895666-2DA9-4CF9-822F-9B7C020014D2.jpeg 5BBD2DC7-8348-44AA-8C5D-A5D8D3CDF707.jpeg 6E895666-2DA9-4CF9-822F-9B7C020014D2.jpeg D23A3E46-C024-4464-9808-79C8219EB1C8.jpeg Hi everyone!

    First time getting down and dirty with the little Firefly. Started the tear down for a clutch replacement.

    I’ve done this before on other vehicles, but it’s been a while to say the least. 32 years as a telephone lineman/cable splicer apparently uses different muscles than laying under or hunching over a ‘69 Jeep!

    Pulled the trans tunnel, removed driveshafts and starter. That 4 hours whooped me!

    Question, before I proceed. Can I remove the shift lever on the T-14a or do I need to remove the top cover?

    I’m sure you have all seen this before, but I love a thread with pictures.

    Thanks,
    Andy
     
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  2. Apr 3, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
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    Sorry, still trying to figure out how to post pics correctly without photo hosting...
     
  3. Apr 3, 2021
    Buildflycrash

    Buildflycrash Blind and Dirty 2022 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Gulf Breeze FL...
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    Pics look good.
    You didn’t have to remove the starter. It may be easier to get it back in but I’ve done it several times now and never removed it.
    I always just remove the top cover and put a small towel over it.

    Good luck. It’s heavy coming out and worse going back in.
     
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  4. Apr 4, 2021
    timgr

    timgr We stand on the shoulders of giants. 2022 Sponsor 2021 Sponsor 2020 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    You have to pull the top cover to remove the lever - it comes out from underneath. Just pull the shift top off now - it's easy to remove and put back. I presume you've drained the oil from the transmission and transfer case.

    I don't have a FSM for these Jeeps, but I'd guess the FSM has a procedure for replacing the clutch.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
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  5. Apr 5, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
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    0723014E-C042-4AEF-BA46-26BAB5D8406D.jpeg D52F5F6A-8453-486B-B09D-6CF6D1C92845.jpeg DB7FB196-0187-43E8-97DD-2EE454B4E574.jpeg All right, next set of questions...

    The input shaft of my T14 has some “slop” or “play”. Normal? Same with the front driveshaft.

    The void in the adapter between bell and tranny has some water inside. Is there a drain hole in there that I need to locate and clean?
    I plan on removing it for cleaning before re assembly.

    Removing the trans and TC went pretty smooth with my funky setup. Seems like it will be a different story going back in. I’m gonna have to call for some help there.

    Look forward to your replies.

    Thanks,
    Andy
     
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  6. Apr 6, 2021
    Duff

    Duff Member

    Trump Country
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    I just finished the same job last week on my 1970 CJ, it has the same drive train as your. Like the previous guys said, pull the trans cover, starter could've be left on, no drain hole in the spacer void, just clean and paint everything up. Pay close attention to your throw out bearing length, there's a long and a short style. I took out a LUK FLAT diaphragm style pressure plate that used the long bearing and installed a RAM RAISED diaphragm plate that came with the short bearing, everything's working well. On reassembly, I installed the spacer & bell housing, then the 3 speed trans by itself, and then the T case and lastly the crossmember, only jack I used was under the oil pan, it all went pretty smooth. The only issue I had was I tried to install the pass side T case mount after I had the crossmember in place, I ended up dropping the crossmember down in order to get the bolt and nut in place.
     
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  7. Apr 6, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
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    The trans seems to hold oil, but the T/C is leaking from the rear.
    If I separate them, can I replace the seal without opening it up?

    Now you’ve got me thinking about separating them for installation.

    Thanks,
    Andy
     
  8. Apr 6, 2021
    Mr Vaughan

    Mr Vaughan Fly by the seat of your pants

    Central City, NE
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    i took mine, which is a slightly different setup (T90 and twin stick 18) out from underneath with a floor jack, and have yet to put it back in.
     
  9. Apr 6, 2021
    Duff

    Duff Member

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    The trans and T case share oil, there's no seal between them, just a gasket, no doubt I'd separate them and replace the seals while it's out. The steel factory pan is usually a leaker, so I went with a NOVAK billet pan, no leaks so far. After I got mine all in, and with the shifter cover still off, I poured the oil directly into the trans, letting it drain into the T case, I filled it up to the transmission fill plug level and then installed the cover. Here's some info on oils, remember your tranny has brass synchros.
    The main difference between GL-4 and GL-5 gear oils is the amount of EP additives. Sulphur/Phosphorus containing products are used as EP-additive. This additive has the purpose to prevent the occurrence of micro-welds on the gear flanks at the local high temperatures which prevail in EP circumstances (temperatures well in excess of 800℃!) GL-5 has roughly twice the amount of EP additives compared to GL-4, which is why it is often used in high-pressure circumstances such as in a front axle and rear axle differential.

    Sulphur/Phosphorus additives however have an unfavourable property: they can react aggressively towards bronze and copper. This can be disastrous for the synchromesh rings of a gearbox. Therefore it is not recommended to use GL-5 in a gearbox unless the manufacturer allows this.
     
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  10. Apr 7, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks Duff!
    You have convinced me!

    Andy
     
  11. Apr 7, 2021
    Duff

    Duff Member

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    I wanted to use Royal Purple, but couldn't justify $23 qt, so I went with (blue bottle) Valvoline synchromesh MTF at $10 qt, it's also safe for yellow metals. Check out this guy, shnitzlhaus.com , he has an excellent video on rebuilding the dana 18, you'll learn a lot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  12. Apr 7, 2021
    Duff

    Duff Member

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    Here's a few pictures of my trans and t case job, the trans was already painted up from a previous rebuild, and I wanted to paint the T case, but time was short. New Ram clutch, T 14 was checked out, rebuilt dana 18 with Novak kit & pan. I dropped the skid plate down a bit to give more room for the pan, ACE hardware had the 3/8 x 1" 3/4 flange bolts and thick wall 3/4"steel spacers, I like the way they look. I'm going to run Valvoline synchromesh for the first 500 miles then probably switch to Redline MT-90, if I still have the Jeep. I actually have a buyer coming Friday for a test drive, it'll be a sad day if he buys it, but I just retired and have too many vehicles.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  13. Apr 8, 2021
    Steve's 70-5

    Steve's 70-5 Active Member 2020 Sponsor

    Louisville, Ky
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    I used the raised diaphragm pressure plate and the short bearing. Working good for what little I have drove the Jeep. Have a hydraulic clutch and it releases smooth. Knocking on wood.

    Would like to find another set
     
  14. Apr 10, 2021
    Duff

    Duff Member

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    Update: The buyer came a day earlier and bought my Jeep! So, I after I dispose of some extra parts he didn't want, I won't be on this site very much if any, good luck with your install.
     
  15. Apr 10, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

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    Thanks Duff for your advice so far and I wish you all the best.
    I should get the flywheel back this morning so I can get started on re assembly to measure for the release bearing.
    Still need to order a few items so it will be a few more weeks until she’s back on the road.

    Thanks again,
    Andy
     
  16. Apr 10, 2021
    Duff

    Duff Member

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    I compared the old bearing with the new one and saw about a 3/8" difference in height, then compared the old and new pressure plates and saw that the diaphragms were also different heights and then m just matched them up. Take care!
     
  17. Apr 16, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
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    D2D8DFD3-BB0D-459D-87C7-A449C03EA699.jpeg C667BC57-AD05-4E29-9622-1922862CD78B.jpeg Stupid question time!
    I put one in backwards back in high school auto shop and never lived it down, but still don’t remember!

    which way does the clutch plate go in?
    Pics are the old one, pretty sure that’s how it came off but I’d rather not hang my hat on “pretty sure”.

    Thanks, and please don’t flame me too bad....
     
  18. Apr 16, 2021
    Mr Vaughan

    Mr Vaughan Fly by the seat of your pants

    Central City, NE
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    one of my dad's (many) old chevy's is parked because the clutch was installed backwards. i'd love to get that going.
     
  19. Apr 16, 2021
    Andrew Theros

    Andrew Theros Member 2022 Sponsor

    Los Osos, CA
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    Okay, the internet answered that stupid question.
    Next question is about the throwout bearing. According to the math, I want about 2-3/16” the one that came with the clutch is 1-5/8” ish, old one was 1-7/8 ish.
    Anybody got a part number that will get me close?
    Novak is out of adjustable bearings.
    Thanks,
    Andy
     
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