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Fino's 58 Wagon

Discussion in 'Builds and Fabricators Forum' started by FinoCJ, Aug 10, 2019.

  1. Jun 13, 2023
    Fireball

    Fireball Well-Known Member 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor 2022 Sponsor

    Pullman, WA
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2018
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    5,719
    Trade you a blue CJ for it. You could use a spare :D:
    [​IMG]

    But like Duffer says, let it rest for a bit and come back to it later. A Power Master 12SI and a bigger charge wire is a nice solution.
     
    Tralehead, vtxtasy and dnb71R2 like this.
  2. Jun 13, 2023
    vtxtasy

    vtxtasy oldbee 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Tucson, AZ
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
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    Hold one one minute. Are you trading my "old blue"? :D Well, that would get you the wagon that you wanted.
     
    givemethewillys likes this.
  3. Jun 14, 2023
    Tralehead

    Tralehead Member

    Silverado, CA
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2022
    Messages:
    201
    Yep, give it a rest. Wiring is pretty simple on these old beasts. I've got to re-do most of the wiring on mine, so don't feel like the Lone Ranger.
    One of the pit falls of "project creep" is the creep! I get overwhelmed on a regular basis, from the springs to the steering to the front axle to the trans... the list goes on. "Screw it, sell it, too old for this!" I know just how ya feel! But then I step away and fix one little thing like a loose what ever and it feels good. Drive it to the post office and get a compliment. Feels better.
    You've put a lot of good work in to your wagon, it's coming along nicely. And you're way ahead of the majority of Wagon or Truck projects. Just keep on keepin' on!
     
    3b a runnin and vtxtasy like this.
  4. Jun 19, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,652
    Spent some time working on wiring....found the alternator issue was mostly the excitation wire (that goes through the idiot light) had a break in the circuit. Got that cleaned up...
    [​IMG]

    Next, while under there, it was time to get a switched ignition power fuse box installed for the aux circuits....also got a ground post put in to make grounding some stuff a bit easier than finding random holes in the dash/firewall...there is a cover for the box as well
    [​IMG]

    I've been working on my fuel guage system for a few weeks....finally found the problem....the float on the sending unit has a crack and it was filled up with fuel. I happen to have another brass float I got from Walcks some couple years ago. Resistance checks out nicely on the sending unit so hopefully that will solve the problem. You can see the crack just below the light reflection...
    [​IMG]

    The OEM gauge is fried, and while I have an omix replacement, they are so cheap and useless, and I was having issue with keeping it from shorting to the speedo housing, I am just going to go with an aftermarket gauge that matches my tri-gauge set-up, and hang it on the bottom of the dash.
     
  5. Jun 20, 2023
    jjeffries

    jjeffries New Member

    Connecticut
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2022
    Messages:
    4
    I have a 57 Pickup, do my posting over on OWF but enjoy this place too (had a 77 AMC CJ5 years ago). The one thing that would allow the care and repair of our old Pickup/Wagon models so much easier would be if the dash was removable. Getting back under there is … difficult, unpleasant, injurious, etc.

    Fino, your Wagon is a beauty.

    best, John
     
  6. Jun 21, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,652
    Functional fuel gauge....not OEM or OEM replacement, but it matches my tri gauge and I even had a couple existing holes on the bottom of dash to use.
    [​IMG]

    These wagon gas tanks are supposedly around 15gal, but it seems the last 2 gal are hard to suck up out of the tank, so it's more like a 13 gal tank of usable fuel. Probably doesn't help the pickup doesn't quite reach the bottom
    [​IMG]

    It was bone dry upon reinstall, and I put in 5 gal. If the first 2 aren't really accessible, then it's functionally 3gallons of fuel in a 13 gal tank. So gauge reads 1/4 tank which is just about right. Have an extra gallon after it hits E.
     
    colojeepguy, Fireball and Jw60 like this.
  7. Jun 21, 2023
    Tralehead

    Tralehead Member

    Silverado, CA
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2022
    Messages:
    201
    What's wrong with OE gauge? Totally toast?
     
  8. Jul 16, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,652
    As I've mentioned in previous posts, there really isn't a front or rear cross-member near either end of the the frame rails on the wagon, and finding good recovery points that don't risk bending the frame rail on an off-angle pull is a tricky. The receiver tow hitch in the back will hopefully help on one end, and now it is time to make a front cross-member with recovery point - and of course, keeping the classic styling of the front splash pan/valence that goes under the grill and over the frame horns was also key. I kind of copied how Chuck installed a cross-member when he helped me rebuild the front frame horns on my CJ. It uses 3x1.5x3/16 rectangular tubing. The 3" height fits nicely inside the frame rails, and in a perfect world, I would have gone for something a bit more square, but the saginaw box wouldn't allow for anything with more 'width'. Another advantage of the 1.5" width is that the tubing sits just in front of the spring/shackle hanger rivet, so I didn't have to deal with clearance that in any way. This is the basic idea:
    [​IMG]

    First thing for this to fit, and even just to test fit, I had to relocate the front bumper bracket mounting bolt back 1.5" on both sides....and of course i did then weld up the old hole:
    [​IMG]

    After cutting the tubing to fit lengthwise, I welded on a tow/shackle point on to the cross-member. Ideally, I think the tow point should be mounted with the long axis horizontal for the most strength, but due to the geometry of my layout, I welded it vertically. I need the tow point to drop below the frame/crossmember so it can be accessed below the bumper, and I just could not figure out a better solution with any other tow point/brackets etc. One thing I like about this piece and the way its mounted, it moves the tow point forward and down - even if its only 1/2-1", its moving it in the right direction to make it a bit more accessible.
    [​IMG]

    With it welded in - jen said it looked like me with a big nose:
    [​IMG]

    Good news, once its all painted and the bumper and splash pan go back on, most everything is hidden nicely:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Jul 16, 2023
    Tralehead

    Tralehead Member

    Silverado, CA
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2022
    Messages:
    201
    Wanna build another one?
    I'm thinking modded for a flat tow setup?
     
  10. Jul 17, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,652
    I am sure Kyle could knock this out for you quick.....and then you gotta decide how far to go. I did not box the frame rails (beyond what was done for the saggy mount). I'd like to, but seems like it would require removal of the grill/radiator for clean welding. It'll probably get done if I ever find the grill and rad removed for some reason in the future.
    FWIW - Tomken machine used to make spring shackles that were triangular in shape with an extra hole forward of the typical shackle set-up that was supposed to allow a tow bar to mount straight to the shackle and avoid using any sort of bumper mount. The downside to that with the wagon set-up is how much forward 'overhang' the bumper has over the spring mounts - would probably cause issues with hitch articulation. So, yes, if you want to flat tow and use the OEM style front bumper/splash pan, then a hidden cross-member with some tow bar mounts protruding forward off the bottom of the cross-member and under the bumper would be pretty straight forward..... Heck, I think you can find tow bar mounts that use recovery point shackle hangers like the one I just mounted....Use two of them out to the sides near the frame rails and hook the tow bar to that. In hindsight, kinda wishing I would have done that just to have the option to flat tow....but my tow bar doesn't use that kind of attachment, so I it wasn't really on my mine, and I'd have to rework the tow bar (and the CJ flat tow set-up).
     
    Tralehead likes this.
  11. Jul 17, 2023
    vtxtasy

    vtxtasy oldbee 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    Tucson, AZ
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
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    1,462
    There are adapters available for shackle mounts. They need to be the correct width and hole size.
     
    Tralehead likes this.
  12. Jul 25, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    5,652
    While I like a lot of originality, and typically am not an LED light fan, the OEM tail lights on the 58 are very small and just a single 57 bulb with the double filament. The dark red lens housing kills a lot of the already limited light, and dust seems to quickly fill into the housing blocking even more light. Basically, I think its just a bit of a safety issue for myself and other drivers that its REALLY hard to see the taillights - not to mention I drive it in the winter on snowy roads and during storms if needed. The standard LED replacement bulbs just don't seem to work all that well: often the LEDs are often pointed in all directions, but as the OEM housing doesn't have a mirror reflector behind it, a lot of that light is wasted. The LEDs also pull such a small amount of current, it causes issues with the flashers/hazards - so these have a built in relay. And I am sure there is some other stuff I am forgetting in their design.

    A couple different members of OWF put in some time and effort to make a proper LED panel with get the most out of the LEDs and to shine them in the appropriate direction (i.e. straight rearward). Here is the front and back of the piece:
    [​IMG]

    The end result is absolutely spectacular.....no daytime pics can do this justice, but this is the standard taillights in middle of the afternoon in my daylit garage:
    [​IMG]

    I was working solo, so no pics with the brake lights - but it essentially doubles the light output, and the flashers work as well!
     
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  13. Jul 25, 2023
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    York, PA
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    4,511
    Liking the wagon for sure. Keep at it.:watch:
     
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  14. Jul 25, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,652
    Dreaming of TBI....
     
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  15. Jul 25, 2023
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,514
    Just went through this exercise on the 3B. I just hung a mirror off its butt. Nice job!

    My friend Dene should copy that. But along with his baling twine spark plug wire support, I doubt that would make his priority list.
     
    FinoCJ likes this.
  16. Jul 25, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,652
    High class here....zip ties keep my plug wires off the exhaust
     
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  17. Sep 15, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,652
    Been having fun with my Dualmatic hubs....I kind of like these hubs for their uniqueness and simplicity, but I understand they are not maybe the strongest hubs ever. But, if they have a crack in them, its probably time to move on from them - as spotted on our trail ride yesterday:
    [​IMG]

    and where there is one crack - seems like more are nearby - after opening up the hub, 3 radial cracks:
    [​IMG]

    Can't be 100% sure, but guessing over tightening may have been part of the problem...you can see the deformation to the aluminum top cover from someone before me:
    [​IMG]

    As has been discussed in a number of threads over the years (more with Warn hubs on full float rear axles), loosening of the hub mounting bolts could have been an issue - I never had an issue with them loosening, but maybe some in the past did. It is interesting to note that the crack hub also had hub bolts with too short of a shoulder section:
    [​IMG]

    In a perfect world, the hub bolt shoulder should be long enough to protrude through the hub housing and into the wheel hub - the wheel hub thread is about 1/4" recessed into the hub and is designed to accept the shoulder of the bolt and acts a bit like a stud between the two....should look more like this (from the non-cracked hub):
    [​IMG]

    in case anyone is really interested in dualmatic hubs, there are some variations in them over the years - I used to have a good link to the 2a page that discussed the variations - but at a minimum, you can see some of the differences here:
    the one on the right (which is the cracked one), has a heavier, beefier casting:
    [​IMG]

    The star gear in the middle is pretty similar - the one from the heavier hub might be ever so slightly beefier - or at least maybe the ends haven't seen as much wear, and it stands some tiny fraction taller?
    [​IMG]

    And lastly, the heavier unit also uses a bearing for the splined axle sleeve/gear to spin on as opposed to a bushing:
    [​IMG]

    too bad the 'beefier' unit is the one that cracked....
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2023
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  18. Sep 15, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,652
  19. Sep 19, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
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    5,652
    With some nice Warn hubs from duffer, I got the front end of the wagon ready for this weekend's wheeling trip to Stanley, ID.....
    [​IMG]

    Disassembled, cleaned, regreased etc....I didn't polish the exterior the way Maury would (sorry), but good enough for my stuff. I didn't have time to get the proper ARP bolts, but I did get some too long bolts that had the correct shoulder length to pass through both halves of the locking hub and protrude into the wheel hub nicely, and then just cut off the extra thread length, cleaned up the thread all nice, and installed with lockwashers and loc-tite. I'll keep a close eye on them this weekend and see if they are loosening.....Thanks John!
     
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  20. Sep 19, 2023
    FinoCJ

    FinoCJ 1970 CJ5 Staff Member

    Bozeman, MT
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    5,652
    Here is a little pet-peeve of mine.....replacement springs from suppliers are often the wrong length such that they do not provide correct shackle angle....I picked up some new old (or would that be old new?) RR rear leaf springs that a local guy had sitting in his garage for 15+ years but never installed. The original tags were still on the leafs and the price was right....so here is one 'new' one installed on the close side and the 'old' spring still in the background:
    [​IMG]

    you can see the shackle angle is vertical with the new spring whereas the old spring the shackle sits at a nice angle....The new springs are labeled as stock ride height - no lift (still sold today) - and when sitting on the floor for direct comparison, the amount of arch in the springs is essentially identical, although the new ones feel do a bit stiffer when you stand on them on the floor, and most importantly, the new ones are an inch shorter eye to eye. Installed, the new springs may hold just a bit more arch when loaded (this is what I was looking for), but it annoys me the shackle position is wrong.
    Anyway....looking at two solutions:
    1) could just ride it out for a bit, including this weekend doing some easy wheeling, and see if it 'settles' a bit. But given that its literally shorter (and not just eye to eye with more arch), guessing that if it settles too much, my goal of gaining just a bit of fender clearance will be defeated....
    2) I am thinking of swapping the old main leaf onto the new spring pack....that would give me the ideal spring mounting length, but with the fresh spring pack underneath to offset a bit of the sag and overly soft springs.....downside I see is potentially the difference in spring rate could put a lot of strain on the main leaf out near the eyes, and possibly cause a failure near the ends of the main leaf. With no military wrap, that is kind of a bad scenario.....
    I have access to quite a lot of 1.75" leaves, both from duffer and from Keith/Joe on OWF are bringing me some to Idaho, and trying to figure out if I can mix and match leaves to get what I want/need, both on the rear, and eventually on the front.
     
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