Muncie 4 Speed

Good morning,

So, a few weeks ago, a family friend who has been big into Jeeps since he was born stopped by to check things out. Although progress has been slow, and I didn't plan on swapping any major components out...he casually mentioned he has a muncie 4 speed sitting in his garage that "I could get for cheap" it already has an adapter for the T18 (I'm all stock on the 57) He wanted to make sure it was still in good shape first and when I saw him this weekend told me to make him a fair offer.

What's a fair offer? I trust his judgement in solid parts but, I'm sure it would need a going over regards if it's been sitting? Is a Muncie a solid unit or should I just save and purchase an OD from Herm's?

All opinions and remarks are welcomed!

Ben-

 

Muncie and T-18 aren't compatible with each other. The T-18 is a Borg-Warner transmission. First you need to figure out what you are being offered.

If it's a Muncie passenger car 4-speed, it's not a very good match to a Jeep unless you want to run on the sand.

 

Thanks for the response Timgr.

I probably didn't understand what he was saying...at least I hope so. According to my wife, I'm always wrong so..this would just be par for the course. I can work on engines and do body work but, when it comes to transmissions and axles, I need a mountain of information.

I'll get more information and then we'll see where we are at. I only plan on road driving and the occassional farm drives so, if the Muncie is out of a truck would that be suitable or just scrap the entire idea?

Thanks again.

Ben-

 

Well, when you say Muncie it usually means the passenger car transmissions like the M20, M21 or M22. These are close-ratio street car transmissions.

There are also GM truck transmissions, like the SM420 http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm420.htm or SM465 http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm465.htm - these are often used as swap transmissions in CJs. Novak calls them Muncies, but I think that's not in common usage. An SM420 or SM465 that's already adapted to the Jeep transfer case would be a great find. The adapter kit alone costs over $500.

None of these are compatible with the Borg-Warner transmissions you usually find in Jeeps - so you would be removing your transmission and using the whole package, GM transmission and adapter.

 

:iagree:

I have seen Muncie 4 speed close ratio tannys in Jeeps before, great on the street, but not so much off road.. And yours being a '57 I would assume it's an F head soooo, yeah, the close ratio muncies are not a good option..

 

I have a Muncie M21 (car trans) in my 69cj and love it. I would agree with the others that behind a F head it may not be the best choice. I have a V8 I mine.

 

Putting any transmission besides the factory Jeep T-90 or factory Jeep T-98 behind the F134 will be difficult. Any of these other transmissions will require novel machining and adapting that you will have to work out. It could be done, but most don't have the resources (be it money or a machine shop) to mate a different transmission to the F134.

I recall that Novak offered a conversion for the Dodge NP435 to the F134 for a brief time. The conversion was expensive - you had to buy both the F134-NP435 conversion kit, and the NP435 to D18 conversion kit. Nothing for the GM transmissions, IIRC.

If you want a truck 4-speed with the F134, the factory T-98 is the obvious choice. The transmission, plate adapter and floor plates show up on the used market rarely. It would probably cost less to seek out a complete CJ-5 with the F134-T98 combo, and trade into those parts somehow, than to adapt a novel transmission to the F134.

The sensible route (IMO) if you wanted the GM transmission... is swap to a GM engine too, ie :v6: or a modern 4-cylinder.

 

Muncie is just a manufacturer of transmissions for GM. The hot rod guys kind of took it over to mean the close ratio M20 and M21 but they also made SM420's and SM 465's. (the SM stands for Saginaw / Muncie). Since it was mentioned it comes with an adapttor for a T18 I'm thinking its probably one of those. Need to check it out.

 

Probably not. Novak says it means SynchroMesh, or possibly Stewart-Muncie. Wikipedia also says it means SynchroMesh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muncie_SM465_transmission

No question that GM had a Muncie transmission division, and that the M20, M21, M22, SM420, SM465 all share heritage in that sense.

 

You guys are just an unbelievable wealth of knowledge.

I asked for more information from him, and I am hoping to get some pictures of the unit as well. That will help move everything along.