Solenoid on starter

Hey all, I have a stock (I believe) starter on my 1969 225 Dauntless, it has the solenoid on the side. I have tried to get this thing fired up but am having no luck as far as it firing. It turns over on the keyed switch I set up but wont "fire". I have read some threads that show the Positive on the coil having a second wire that goes to the solenoid on the Starter "R" Terminal on the solenoid. The problem is that my Solenoid on the starter only has the 1 small stud on it (I believe it is the "S" terminal) that goes to the Ignition Switch. Not sure where to run this second coil wire to. The first Coil wire I have running to a Ballast resistor then to my Ignition switch "RUN" position. Oh, I am running power from the Positive on the Battery to the "BAT" terminal on the Ignition switch.

 

Do you have a wiring schematic?

If not I can post one for you from the old site,

Im understanding what your talking about but don't remember how it's supposed to go.

 

If you don't have a second terminal you can run a wire to the starter side of the solenoid to act as a resistor by-pass.

 

I do not have a good diagram etc of what I am trying to do. Some of the links are old and do not show the diagrams they speak of. I basically am running the stock Dauntless from 69 without a regulator because I am putting on a GM 1 wire Alternator. If I can just figure out how best to run this I will be great (so to speak). Can i just not use the Sarters solenoid and use a 2 post one on the fire wall? I have many of those laying around from Old Fords.

 

this is the one from the old site, and what I used to get my cj's electrical correct. (I saved a lot of files from old site before it got moved)


I'm not sure how to answer that last question for ya...

 

The diagram you are showing is for the prestolite starter. I don't know which one the OP has.

 

Great help with the diagram. I changed it around. It cranks still but will not fire. I ruled out most of the other parts not to be faulty so I dont know what to do. Do I need to run a second wire from the Positive on the Coil to some where? By not running the alternator wiring i fear I may have changed some connection.

 

Which starter do you have? Is it marked Delco?

 

I checked the Starter, it is not marked at all.

 

If this is just a test to start engine . then just hot wire it from battery to + side of coil . then crank it over

 

Ok, I tried going straight from the positive on the battery to the positive on the Coil, I then cranked it, again it cranks but does not fire up. Also before putting that connection in I tried a test light on the wire to the Positive on the coil and it lit up when the ignition switch was in the "run" position. again when I hard wired from the Battery to the coil (obviously). So the coil is getting juice in the "run" position, the ballast resistor is good (lights up on both terminals when in the run position). I get power to the ignition from the "S" terminal and the power line to the "Batt" terminal. IS it the COIL? I swapped it out with a old cruddy one (unsure if its good) and had all the same effects. Could there be some ground issue? Im stumped. Could I have burnt out the points at some point by leaving the Ignition in the run position? What am I missing?

 

Obvious question but are you getting a spark at the plugs? Pulled one to see?

 

You can check the points with your test light. An ohm meter is better but a light will work. Remove the distributor cap and turn the crankshaft to a position the points appear open. With the ignition switch in the run position (or your hot-wire attached), test the connection between a good engine ground and the positive (+) side of the coil. The test light SHOULD light. Test again with the points closed (should NOT light). If this checks out your points and primary ignition wiring are correct (coil may still be bad).

 

Great ideas, I will try them as soon as I re-charge my battery. Thanks for the help so far.

 

Don't make this a difficult task -- it is really quite easy.

The fourth terminal on the solenoid is connected to the "+" side of the coil. It is used only in applications wherein there is an external dropping resistor in the circuit. That fourth terminal actually shorts around the dropping resistor, causing a hotter spark whilst the starter motor is turning.

In the F-134 version there is no need for a fourth terminal since the dropping resistor is integral to the coil itself.

In the V6 application there is an external dropping resistor mounted on the firewall, so you'd connect that fourth terminal as described above.

But what to do if your solenoid only has three terminals? Well, your are just plumb out of luck on that one. Whatever you do, don't connect the terminal you have to the "+" side of the coil -- it sounds as if it would work, but that would also force the starter motor to be on any time the ignition switch is on and that would be a bad thing. I suppose you could do a work around with a diode in the circuit, but if it ever shorted out (as diodes oft times do) it would engage the starter motor, which would be an interesting thing to watch, especially if it happened at, say 60 MPH.

If you absolutely have to have the shorting circuit then you could rig up a second four terminal fender mount solenoid to drive the starter mount solenoid, but that seems like a lot of effort.

In any case, I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Not shorting around the dropping resistor won't prevent the engine from starting. It might provide a little help on a -20 degree day, but it won't be a make or break item at these temperatures.

I'd ignore the lack of the fourth terminal and look for the not-starting problem elsewhere.

 

I was thinking about the no spark issue . I ride a old harley with points and condenser . have had the condenser burn out my times (vibration) no spark. its just a thought . the jeep I have still has points .never a problem . would do like one of the post suggested . put 12V on coil and open and close the points with a screwdriver . you should get a spark from coil wire . if not. its the condenser or coil . they just don't make them like they use to . everything comes from china now-a-days

 

After going in circles I determined it was the Coil, yes It chose to go bad while i was working on the wiring. The extra Coils I had were all bad as well, LOL. tossed them. I bought a new one and all is just fine and she is now running. Thanks

 

Worked on the wiring for my front signal lights over the weekend and midway through everything just stopped working. I took the turn switch apart 3 times and cleaned the contacts each time to find out both of the ancient bulb burned out at the same time. Glad you got it figured out.

 

Yeah, It seems that with these old vehicles, working on them opens up a can of worms. One thing leads to another.