Convince me: drive flanges or locking hubs?

Technically referred to as "selectable freewheeling hubs".
"Lock outs" or "locking hubs" are not a desireable option for an offroad rock crawler with power steering.

If the jeep will see lots of road use then they certainly are a good thing.
With hubs disengaged they reduce the amount front axle drag.
Front axle drag is certainly noticable as a decreased steering response.
The drag is also noticable as an increase of roll resistance.

Front axle drag is much more noticable on jeeps having small engines.
Also the front axle drag increases very notably whenever the axle lubricant gets cold.

 

I have been trail running for my entire Jeep career which is just over 50 years now, and most of those trails are at least 3 with a few 4's and a lot of rock/boulders-the last 40 years with power steering and hubs. I did destroy a set of Dualmatics but of the several pairs of Warns, there has never been a problem-just have to keep them tight.

I absolutely agree that the effect of hubs is more apparent with either of the 134's. I am going to guess that the top speed is increased by 1 to 2 mph with the front axle disengaged. A carefully controlled experiment with hubs both locked in and free should show some real results.

 

What do you base this on? Do you consider the "selectable freewheeling hubs" to be weaker than drive flanges?
Also, what effect would using power steering have on this?

In my personal experience doing at least some level of offroad rock crawling, I have never broken any of the Warn selectable freewheeling hubs. I am aware that they can be broken like any other part of our frequently abused rigs. I have never used drive flanges, so I can't comment on the relative merits of the two systems.

Don

 

Never broken freewheeling hubs of any kind with power steering, even over the rocks.

The tie rods always bend first (if you don't beef them up.)

 

i notice a huge difference on the road with my 46 flathead in acceleration, drivetrain noise and it even steers better. I havnt done any expearimenting with my 67 cj5 and v6 because i always unlock them on the road except in deep snow. but I think you would be crazy not to have locking hubs if your using it mostly on the road. you would make up the difference in cost of gas in no time. new vehicles dont have locking hubs because it does it automaticly . either by electic disconect or auto hubs when theres no power going in.

 

That is a another good point, tighter turning radius with hubs unlocked.

 

Not only that, locking hubs will turn water into wine and change the baby's diapers.

Amazing that the old CJ's could operate at all without them.

 

Looks like I've got bigger problems to worry about. They're in my build thread. Suffice it to say, some forking fiend took the front drums off, and didn't put them back on. And they seem to be 11" ers.

 

What I meant is that selectable hubs are not much of a benefit if your jeep operates stricktly off-road.

Duffer is correct that selectable hubs allows one an easy trail fix.
Yet in an emergency you can disengage the front by removing the drive flanges and covering the outer hub with duct tape.
Therefore I say that they are not much advantage for any offroad jeep that is fully engaged most of the time.
Also they just stick out further !

Some are weaker but that really depends on the quality of the selectable hub.
A "weak link" is almost always a good thing as long as the weak link is a cheap and an easy replacement.
Ideally the hub bolts are the weak link.

The engaged front axle drag is always somewhat notable effecting the ease of steering.
Standard drive flanges will always transmit that steering drag.
That steering drag is a reduced effort if the jeep has power steering.

Selectable hubs should be engaged occassionally to lubricate the D25 / D27 upper steering knigpin bearings.

 

I never noticed much difference in 2WD with hubs locked in or out... but all my Jeeps have had the overboosted Jeep power steering.

You can pick up a set of hubs used for short money, I would predict ... may as well have them. I don't think the stick-out is much of an issue, esp. with wider tires and wheels.

 

I have 3 4X4's all with lockout type hubs. In all of them I feel a bit more drag when the're engaged, not much but I get a feel that something isn't right.
Not to mention extra vibrations on the Jeeps, and yes it's due to some wear in the front slip joints.

 

This is a good point. If you have any wear in the front driveshaft slipjoint (common) you'll get vibration
drfiving in 2WD with drive flanges (or with hubs that are locked in).

 

Well not normally a factor but it might be if you run a narrow track jeep on skinny tires through the woods.

Also forgot to mention the obvious that selectable hubs are ideal (on both front and rear) when flat towing.

 

This.^ It's all about marketing and what appeals to the consumer. Not to mention the additional service to the now constantly moving parts.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

I think all selectable hubs are weaker than drive flanges, just that some are a LOT weaker than others. The cam types (Dualmatic, Cutlas, etc) usually only have 2 points of engagement and when really loaded, the shell just splits. The spline types (Warn, Selectro, etc) are much stronger.

I don't know about Herm's 30 spline full floaters, but on the 19 spline floaters, the axles usually twist/break before the 27 spline flanges fail.

 

yep
yep
and yep

 

I have five jeeps, four of which have hubs and one flanged. If I was going to have a jeep that I used on the road (even if it was once in a while) it would have locking hubs. Moreover it would have the Warn Automatic Hubs on it. Warn Lock-a-matic


Those automatic hubs were one of the best add-ons that was made for jeeps. For a jeep that is being driven on the road a lot, most times 4wd is needed only for a moment or two -- like when you back off the tarmac into the grass at the post office, or over a parking chock, or are starting from a stop sign on a street full of wet leaves. Throw the jeep with auto hubs into 4wd and you have 4wd without getting out and fastening the hubs. Shift out of 4wd and you are freewheeling again.

Those auto hubs when left in the "AUTO" position don't work well for full time four wheeling, so ---

If one goes off road with those hubs then he simply adjusts the hubs into the "LOCK" position and they act like any other locked hub.