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D18 - Use Front Output on Rear to Lose Brake Drum?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Boyink, Jan 4, 2005.

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  1. Jan 4, 2005
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    Mike Oakes and I are continuing our D18 rebuilds...everything is pretty well pulled apart / cleaned /inspected at this point. I have some small parts to round up and hope to be reassembling come Sunday.

    One question - I don't need the D18 parking brake, as I'll have 11" drums on Dutch to use. We test fitted a front output on the rear and it looks like it would work, and let me leave off the drum assembly.

    Any issues with doing this?
     
    Boyink, Jan 4, 2005
    #1
  2. Jan 4, 2005
    181jeep

    181jeep Banned

    central valley, ca
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    Feb 3, 2004
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    Yeah, the rear 11's don't work worth a damn with the stock hand pull.

    JB
     
    181jeep, Jan 4, 2005
    #2
  3. Jan 4, 2005
    w3srl

    w3srl All-around swell dude Staff Member

    Port Orange, FL
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    I've got a D18 out of a wagon, I think and itdidn't have an e-brake setup on it. I had to pull the rear housing off the old Brown-Lipe xfer case that came out of the flattie in order to get the brake to bolt up.

    I don't see where running without the brake setup would be a problem.

    As for the other comment on the hand-pull not working well with rear drums, I can see that; Not much, if any mechanical advantage with the hand-pull unit. If it becomes a problem, mebbe adapt a foot pedal setup, or an under-dash lever like the M-151s had or a floor-mounted lever like the M-38A1.
     
    w3srl, Jan 4, 2005
    #3
  4. Jan 4, 2005
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    with the brake assy off, you could also just re-use the original yoke
    bolt it back up the way it was
    that's what I did
     
    jpflat2a, Jan 4, 2005
    #4
  5. Jan 4, 2005
    gte636p

    gte636p Member

    smyrna, Ga
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    i was eyeing jim's statement last time, but couldn't bring myself to seeing the drum on the back of the case (even though it doesn't have any internals). you'd have to ditch the flange though... i know it's a short distance but it might make the shaft itself too short, while helping with the angle?? for some reason i'm remembering a site recently that mentioned different cup sizes on the same size joint... anyone know the reference??
     
    gte636p, Jan 4, 2005
    #5
  6. Jan 4, 2005
    DanStew

    DanStew Preowned Merkin salesman Staff Member

    Lexington, South...
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    Ditto on what Jim said. i just stripped everything off (parking brake wise) and put it back together
     
    DanStew, Jan 4, 2005
    #6
  7. Jan 4, 2005
    scott milliner

    scott milliner Master Fabricator

    Seattle Wa.
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    Dec 17, 2002
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    I wanted to use the front yoke. I found it fits, but I had to put on the metal dust seal ring that was on the rear yoke. It has to fit inside the speedo housing.

    If you do it this way you will need to shorten the rear driveline. Its a good idea. I'll probably do this when I change over to the SM465.
     
    scott milliner, Jan 4, 2005
    #7
  8. Jan 4, 2005
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    Ditto what Dan said Jim said. I didn't do what Dan said he and Jim did, but if I had done something that's what I would have done. :? :D
     
    Glenn, Jan 4, 2005
    #8
  9. Jan 5, 2005
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    as Billy would say
    "worthless without pics"
    we'll here you go
     
    jpflat2a, Jan 5, 2005
    #9
  10. Jan 5, 2005
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    on CJ models, the rear shaft ujoints are the same from 1941-1986; and the cups are all the same size

    I guess the real analysis (argument) would be which is stronger:
    using the u-joint with u-bolts or the double flange?
    which is stronger?
    for me, it was just convenience
     
    jpflat2a, Jan 5, 2005
    #10
  11. Jan 5, 2005
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    Thanks guys...

    The concern we had just pulling the drum brake stuff was no dust seal over the rear output bearing...the dust seal on the front seemed to fit over the speedo housing nicely.

    I was also worried about driveshaft length changing, but I *think* I have enough travel in the that new rear DS that it'd be OK.

    If the dust seal isn't a big deal I'll just yank the drum stuff and be done with it.
     
    Boyink, Jan 5, 2005
    #11
  12. Jan 5, 2005
    gte636p

    gte636p Member

    smyrna, Ga
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    Sep 23, 2002
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    just remembered what i was reading... flange bolt patterns aren't necessarily standard. which really has no effect on the whole situation.
     
    gte636p, Jan 5, 2005
    #12
  13. Jan 5, 2005
    1969_CJ5

    1969_CJ5 Sponsor

    North Carolina
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    Boyink.... If you decide to leave it off I may be interested in the parts you have "left over"
     
    1969_CJ5, Jan 5, 2005
    #13
  14. Jan 5, 2005
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    OK!
     
    Boyink, Jan 5, 2005
    #14
  15. Jan 5, 2005
    wheelie

    wheelie beeg dummy 2024 Sponsor 2023 Sponsor

    York, PA
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    Okay, maybe I've had too much iced tea but I don't get it. If you lose all that e-brake crap on the back of the case, how come you need a shorter driveshaft. Seems to me I'd need longer driveshaft. What am I missing? If/when I do my 420 swap, I plan on losing that e-brake in the hopes of gaining back some of the lost rear shaft length which will result from the adapter. Am I looking at this wrong?
    Beeg Dummy
     
    wheelie, Jan 5, 2005
    #15
  16. Jan 5, 2005
    schardein

    schardein Low Range Therapy

    Success, MO
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    This thread kinda confuses me, but I know you can remove all the park brake stuff and just reassemble without it using the same yoke, in which case there is no change in driveshaft running length.
    If you change to a different yoke I guess then the length could change-haven't been there or done that.
     
    schardein, Jan 5, 2005
    #16
  17. Jan 5, 2005
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    schardein is correct
    nothing changes
    just bolt it back up
    maybe the thickness of the drum only, and that's not much
    but that's it
     
    jpflat2a, Jan 5, 2005
    #17
  18. Jan 6, 2005
    schardein

    schardein Low Range Therapy

    Success, MO
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    I just pulled my assembly off this weekend. The drum goes behind(transfer side) the flange (you must remove the driveshaft, big flange nut, and flange to get the drum off) so even the thickness of the drum does not affect driveshaft length.
    Actaully I wish it did, it would make working on the park brake much easier if one did not have to pull the flange to get to all of it.
    Messy to!
     
    schardein, Jan 6, 2005
    #18
  19. Jan 6, 2005
    screwcity

    screwcity New Member

    Colorado springs, Co
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    Dec 16, 2004
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    what is the size of the nut that holds on the drum and the front yoke?

    I have a dana 18 that doesn't have the drum and i'm trying to fit a drum from another dana 18. I know that it isn't 1" or 1 1/4" and I don't have any sockets in between.

    thanks in advance

    Rio
     
    screwcity, Jan 6, 2005
    #19
  20. Jan 6, 2005
    Boyink

    Boyink Super Moderator Staff Member

    Tulsa, OK
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    Sorry...I probably initated the confusion.

    Our concern with just pulling the drum brake stuff was more leaving the rear output bearing with no dust seal of any sort. We had a front output sitting there, and slid it on the shaft/speedo housing, and it looked like the dust deal covered the rear of the speedo housing nicely.

    I'd agree with Jim - the driveshaft will have to become longer to make up for the thickness of the drum, which isn't enough to be worried about (especially for me as I just put on a DS with more travel than the original).
     
    Boyink, Jan 6, 2005
    #20
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