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1 ton axles on 69 CJ5

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by Setxcj5, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. Dec 14, 2011
    Setxcj5

    Setxcj5 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2011
    Messages:
    13
    Hey! I'm a Newbie here and in the jeep world. I picked up a 69 CJ5 with the v6, and 31" super swampers with 4" wheel spacers. It runs and drives... Not great but it does ;)

    Two things that I wanted to address on this thing. No brakes and TONS of play in the steering. Im wanting to add some 1ton axles to it, fix the brakes, and put power steering on it.

    I figure that if I got the axles I wanted on there first, I could then tackle the steering and brakes.

    Like I said... I'm a Newbie but want to learn as I go but I can stick weld good enough, have a nice shop to work in. What axles should I be looking for? There are some U-Pull-It yards around me. I assume I should find a 4x4 non duelie 1ton? I'm not sure..., prob not too many of those out there. What about a 3/4 ton truck? What type of truck should I get these off of, what price should I be willing to pay? any out there that would have disc brakes front & back?

    Nice to meet y'all and I look forward to the day when I can help someone out with questions in the future!
     
  2. Dec 14, 2011
    66cj5

    66cj5 Jeep with no name

    NorthWest Indiana
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2003
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    2,071
    why the need for 1 ton axles?
     
  3. Dec 14, 2011
    Jeepenstein

    Jeepenstein Me like Jeep..

    Middle TN
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    Jun 15, 2003
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    1,680
    Yeah I tend to agree, One ton axles are of no benefit on the early 5.. Unless you are gonna build a monster jeep or something. Even for heavy trail use with 33" tires a flanged dana 44 out back and maybe a dana 30 up front is plenty. One ton axles are just too heavy..
     
  4. Dec 14, 2011
    jeepcj

    jeepcj Member

    cincy, Ohio
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
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    601
    I agree, one tons are a lot of axle The dana 44 was used up to 3/4 ton. I don't know a whole lot about this swap but it is common. The jeep wagonneer from the mid-to late 70's had front and rear d44's, I don't know about the ones in the 80's. The 87 2wd 4cyl jeep cherekee got a rear 44 that would have 4.10 gears, I don't know about the 6cyl. I think you have to out-board the front axle. thats about all I know about the swap. I see people running 35 and 36" tires on these axles all the time and think they would be better for the little 5 than the one tons.
     
  5. Dec 14, 2011
    jasonjp62

    jasonjp62 Member

    Pennsboro WV.
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    Aug 15, 2009
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    796
    I say the work involved vs the pay off is not worth it. As the guys say go with a dana 30 upfront and a 44 in the back.
     
  6. Dec 14, 2011
    mb82

    mb82 I feel great!

    Charlottesville Va
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    Mar 17, 2003
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    2,715
    X how many times. These JEEPs survive well without one ton axles better then modern Jeeps because they don't weight all that much, it is not uncommon for a trail built TJ or JK to top 5Klbs, these Jeeps when heavy get to 3600lbs. 1/2 ton axles survive well and you don't have a loss in ground clearance due to ginormous pumpkins and you don't have the tires totally sticking out past the fenders( unless you want to cut the axles down).
     
  7. Dec 14, 2011
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2002
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    11,571
    First, Welcome!

    A couple things about 1 ton axles. They are huge and wide. The pumpkins can create issues with things like fuel tanks, engine oil pans, etc. If you have the fuel tank under the rear there is a good chance the pumpkin won't clear the tank or skid plate. On the front, it is far too wide and to narrow it up, there isn't enough room to narrow the passenger side because of the size of the pumpkin and how narrow the frame is. I just did this on my CJ-6 project that has a Scout Terra frame which is significantly wider, and I have almost no passenger tube between the knuckle and the pumpkin. And this was keeping it close to Scout 2/Wagoneer narrow track width. No way you could get it to even wide track CJ width. I could probably post a pic in the next few days if you're interested.
    If you're staying around 33" tires or less, or even up to 35's, a flanged 44 rear and a 30 or 44 front would be fine. The 30 from a later CJ is a virtual bolt in. A 44 Wagoneer narrow track would need to outboard the front springs but is doable. Do a search as this has been covered a LOT here and several members have done it.
    Before jumping on the big axle, big engine band wagon I'd suggest getting it running and driving decent, see it's capabilities, then build from there. These old Jeeps are plenty capable with minor tweaks and modifications.
     
  8. Dec 14, 2011
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power 2019 Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Sep 17, 2009
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    A 60 will also get you a shorter driveshaft, not very desirable either. Full float 44 rear and 44 front, IMO, probably more beef than one needs unless you are intent on building a "pirate" rig. In that case, just put your body on a lifted 3500 chassie and be done with it.
     
  9. Dec 14, 2011
    timgr

    timgr Jeepin' Nerd 2020 Sponsor 2019 Sponsor

    Medford Mass USA
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    Indeed, welcome! Agree wit above. Huge and way too wide. The posts above represent lots of experience.

    Go with Wagoneer axles if you want a wider track and beef, D44s F/R and outboard the fronts; goes from 53" WMS-WMS to 57" on the front, and slightly narrower on at the rear. This is beefy for a CJ.
     
  10. Dec 14, 2011
    Setxcj5

    Setxcj5 New Member

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    Dec 13, 2011
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    Ok I guess 1 ton axles was a bit overboard lol My buddy had just been telling me about how I just soooo needed to put those on there. After reading the comments (Thank you all) I think that I ought to tone it down a bit initially! It's probably best to get it back to where I can enjoy it for a couple weeks, break something, fix it, break more, and learn as I repair!

    The top two things that I need to get sqared away to enjoy the jeep are:

    1. Fix the steering (Need help)
    2. Fix the brakes (I got that)

    I've red a bunch of threads on adding power steering to these jeeps, but the tie rod configuration that I see on my jeep is different than what I see on all the pictures. Mine has two somewhat equal length tie rods that connet close to the center of the jeep and to the pitman arm. The photos that I look at of the powersteering upgraded jeeps have one long tie rod that connects to both hubs, then a second shorter one that goes from the passenger tire to the pitman arm. I'm missing something there :)

    The other part that confused me about the steering is the steering column. My column goes from the Jeep cab, down to a steering gear box, which moves a pitman arm that pushes a rod that manipulates another L shaped Pitman arm that turns the tie rods. Where are you guys coming up with these long steering colums that that have an elbow in the engine compartment and can reach up to the power steering box on the front?

    Thanks agan for the replys!
     
  11. Dec 14, 2011
    Corveeper

    Corveeper Member

    Chanute, Kansas
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    One of my brother-in-laws is a former Jeeper and one of these guys that thinks he does everything bigger and better than anyone else so when I told him I got a set of Wagoneer Dana 44’s for my Jeep he said, “I don’t know why you’d mess around with 44’s when you could just get a set of 60’s.” I immediately replied “Ground clearance”, a concept that flew straight over his head.
    See, Dana 44’s with 35” tires will give you about the same ground clearance as Dana 60’s and 38” tires. So you would have to go with 40” tires to gain any advantage over Dana 44’s and 35’s and it is a supremely bad idea to go fitting 40” tires under a CJ5 without extending the wheelbase which gets into a whole host of other issues.
    The funny part is his Jeep was a Wrangler YJ with Dana 30/35 and 35” tires that he didn’t build right so it would bust something just about every time he ventured anywhere off road.
     
  12. Dec 14, 2011
    Posimoto

    Posimoto Hopeless JEEP Addict

    Minden, Nevada
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    Aug 7, 2003
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    Everything stated above is the truth. If you have 350 hp, and 40" tires, then think about the 1 ton's.
     
  13. Dec 14, 2011
    mb82

    mb82 I feel great!

    Charlottesville Va
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    You actually need to build a new tierod setup. That is for a Rossbox which the pitman arm( for lack of a better word) is in the middle of the Jeep. With Saganaw your box and pitman arm are on the drivers side of the Jeep. Not a big deal to build a new one.
     
  14. Dec 14, 2011
    1969k10

    1969k10 New Member

    Clarks Hill, IN
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    Oct 5, 2009
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    One of the beauties of these 5's, is the simplicity. Don't over complicate that wonderful jeep you just got. Drive it, enjoy it, and upgrade as you find the need to. Just my thoughts.
     
  15. Dec 14, 2011
    wsknettl

    wsknettl cuz

    NW Wisconsin
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    108
    Well the best first step is to tell us or show us what steering is on your jeep now. If it's the stock Ross box then as mentioned above fix it and drive the jeep awhile as equipped and then decide where you want to go with performance increases and then decide what changes will help you meet those specific performance goals. Every performance project needs a baseline to develop from and performance goal to achieve.
     
  16. Dec 14, 2011
    Setxcj5

    Setxcj5 New Member

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    Here we go! I went outside and took a couple of pictures of the steering. Every single connection wiggles which gives me tons of play in my steering... Sorry for the dirt :)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Dec 14, 2011
    RATTYFLATTY

    RATTYFLATTY I think you need a little more throttle

    Central MN
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    395
    And a PTO winch to boot
     
  18. Dec 14, 2011
    moparman1978

    moparman1978 Member

    Grants Pass, Oregon
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2008
    Messages:
    46
    First I would replace all your tie rod ends, next inspect the steering bellcrank for play or tightness, and then work your way to the drag link that is attached to your steering box for play in that too. Last would be the steering box, if you check in the search box on this forum you might find more answers for what you are looking for. I personaly am going to remove a homemade steering setup someone placed on my jeep before I bought it . It has a manual saginaw steering box attached and welded to the frame and a long shaft mounted to my original steering colum and my drop arm is welded in two pieces and this makes me nervous. I plan to install a ross steering box to my jeep where it belongs and reinstall my bellcrank and draglink to my steering components. If you use the new modern components, and with proper adjustments it should work out for you, if not you can also try Herm's steering kit that uses a Ford Ranger steering box either power or manual it's pretty simple, and the steering boxes are plenty either at a pick-n-pull, or at your auto parts store. Good luck, and enjoy your jeep cause nothing rides like a jeep!:flag:
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2011
  19. Dec 14, 2011
    mortten

    mortten I can’t put my finger on it

    Peninsula, Ohio
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
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    1,333
    Get a Factory Service Manual available a number of places. A lot of helpful info.
     
  20. Dec 14, 2011
    noahlon

    noahlon Old Fart

    Pine Ridge, AR
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    206
    A Saginaw steering conversion will do real wonders to the steering on early CJ's! Got one on my 68 and it is tight and tracks true! Since this photo, I installed a new pitman arm and reversed the tie rod end. [​IMG][/IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2011

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