Rear Seal Replacement Dilemma, Please Help!!!

Hi Guys,

Okay, so today I went through with beginning to replace my rear bearing seal on my F-134 with the new rubber seals that I purchased from Midwest Willys. Everything went good until it came time to install the new upper bearing seal. I did as I have read in previous posts as follows.

I removed the rear crankshaft bearing cap and the old upper seal came out with ease. Then I loosened the other two crankshaft bearing caps in order to gain a little more clearance for installation of the upper crankshaft bearing seal. After that, I attached my new seal to my sneaky pete tool and had an assistant turn the crank while I attemted to pull the new seal through the top.

Well, I spent three hours trying and broke both seals trying to pull them through. RATS!! The sneaky pete just pulled the ends right off the seal both times. Even with all the crank bearing caps loose, I just do not have enough clearance to get the seal in. It is tearing up the seals trying to get them in. Loosening the caps did not appear to give me anymore clearance because the crank is still held up by the front pully seal in front and the transmission in the back.

Question, What the heck do I do now? Will it help to take the front pulley and seal loose to get the more clearance? If so, How hard is it going to be to get the front pulley off? I have an impact wrench but a pretty small air compressor so I do not have a whole lot of power that way. Also, how do I prevent the crank from spinning while I try to get the pulley loose? Is the the correct action to take next?

I would really appreciate some help here cause I am stuck.

Suggestions?

 

Hate to say it, but a Sneaky Pete is meant to be used with the rope seals, not the neoprene seals. The neoprene seals can be pushed through the seal gap. Only the rope seals need to be pulled.

I suggest you get another seal, lube it up good with the slipperiest oil you have (I like SilGlyde, but Vaseline, axle grease or motor oil are likely ok), and push it into place. I have not done a lot of these, and none on a F134. But the few I''ve done have been neoprene seals, and that's how I've done it.

 

Timgr,

Thank you for your response. I will get another seal and try again. Ooooops on the Sneaky Pete. My bad. Problem is, I tried pushing the seal through by hand for quite a while before I even went to the sneaky pete. The problem I am having is very little room to really get a good hold on the seal and push it through. Also, one of the inner grooves of the seal kept getting caught on the steel nipple and tearing the seal. The more I would push at it, the rubber in the groove would start pealing back and bunching up making push through impossible if that makes sense. Best I can try to explain it. I will try to lube a new seal up better next time though. Hopefully that will help. I was just wondering if there is any way to get the crank to drop a little more first so I can get a little more space. I just need a 64th of an inch more so the seal groove does not catch on the steel nipple.

Hope I can find a seal local tomorrow so I dont have to wait another week on snail mail.

Thanks for your input,

Much appreciated.

 

I prefer to change rear seals on the engine stand. Gives me a chance to look everything over and much easier to do it right the first time. But that's what I do.

Since you have your mind set on the bottom side install and need another 1/64" I would loosen the tranny to bell housing bolts (about 2 turns on the top 2 bolts and 4 to 6 turns on the bottom 2 bolts.

As mentioned above the seal should be warm and very slippery. Get your hands on a pair of pliers with plastic jaw pads. Put a budy on a wrench/socket on the crank nut and rotate the crack while pushing on the seal half.

 

Thanks Wes,
I will give it a try. Found one at Napa this morning. I will let you guys know what happens. Sure hope I dont have to pull the motor.
Guess we will see,
Thanks

 

Have you inspected the surface on the crank that the seal rides on? If that surface is scored, grooved or pitted you are not going to keep it from leaking again.


Bad sealing surface



Good sealing surface

 

Wes,
Thanks for the great photos. My crank surface looked real good that I recall but now that I have seen your photos, I will definately be taking a second look when I get home.
Thanks

 

Update on rear seal replacement. I have tried everything and already shredded two sets of seals trying to get a new one in. Still no luck. This all began because I read numerous posts on this website stating that this seal could be replaced from underneath without removing the engine. Oh how I wish it was so. First I took off the pan then loosened the crank bearing caps to get some clearance. No luck. Seal shredded. Then I loosened the bell housing bolts to get a little more clearance. No luck. Seal shredded. Then I ordered a new seal. Took off timing gear cover and pullet in front of the engine in order to get the front of the crank to drop and gain more clearance. No luck. Seal shredded. I have tried heating the metal crank and block and freezing the seal to get the seal to shrink and the gap to widen. No luck. Seal shredded.
Well, I am now into this with 60 bucks in seals including shipping each time and now looking at engine removal. All because I took some bad advice found on this web page only to find out the advice was bad. I wish I would have let it leak because this old peice of junk is now not worth the ground it sits on to me.
BEWARE OF BAD ADVICE. Not everything you read on here is fact and not everyone is no it alls and it can end you up in hot water. I am now concidering either parting this thing out to try and get some of my loss back or tow it out in the desert and light it on fire. I think the fire would be cheaper in the long run.
Keep in mind, these jeeps are old and will always be money pits. Wish I never laid eyes on this junk.

 

Well, you can always go with the rope seal. Sounds like you're at your wits end with the rubber seals.

You have the sneaky pete that helps with the rope seal. Maybe someplace like Midwest Willys has a NOS seal for you. http://midwestwillys.com/

 

my haynes manual says virtually the same procedures as everyone's advice. Its pretty standard procedure on all older engines unless its a one piece seal

 

On a Jeep engine , no I haven't. But I have replaced rear main seals with the engine still in the vehicle. It really can be done, its not bad advice. First, do you have the seal oriented in the correct direction?

 

Sounds like one of Unclebills old treads.

 

i was just thinking that!
get so po'ed and bent out of shape that my posts would be semi coherent.
i caught myself so mad that mere cussing wasn't cutting it
and ended up speaking in tongues

 

I keep an old beat up wrench in my back pocket just for that reason, its my throwin, beatin an cussin wrench for when I need to let loose.

 

Well Stated Chuck.
Free advice is just that, Free. To beat on the folks here because the free advice did not work for you is really ill will. I'm sorry the advice didn't work for you in your circumstance but the advice given was not bad advice. In fact the methods given are pretty much the sop with multi piece rear main seals in the automotive industry. To blame the Jeep for the issues you're having is like destroying a toaster because it didn't brown your toast perfectly. I understand the frustration you are experiencing, that's common when dealing with old vehicles, but no where else will you find the knowledge base and more important, the willingness to share that knowledge as you will here. I wish you the best of luck in the future.

 

the only bad advice i haveever gotten here was when DONX hooked me up with URETHRA

 

Okay, first off, I need to apologize to those I may haveoffended. I spoke in haste and did notmean to imply that the advice on this site is bad but just that not everythingyou read is concrete fact and to warn other owners of F-134 engines thatchanging the rear seal from the underside may not be reality as stated innumerous other threads. As to the claim by a previous poster yesterday that Imay have "Gotten over my head" I assure you that this is not the case. This is not my first go around but it was myfirst attempt at changing a rear seal on this particular engine. I did not want to be one to post a questionthat had already been asked a million times before so before I even startedthis project, I spent several days checking previous threads as to the best wayto fix the leak at the rear seal. Everything that I found previously posted was that this job does not require engine removal so I plannedthe repair from the underside without removal. Much to my dismay and several times underneath the jeep staining andcursing with bruised knuckles to get the seal in, I became a littleheated.
All I am trying to state here is that although this may bean acceptable method of repair on some engines, it may not be on others sothose planning on attempting this repair from the underside (especiallyF-134's) should be warned that this project could easily become more than onehad planned for, and those stating that this is a possible repair from theunderside should be aware that it may not work on all engines. I spoke with the head mechanic at Four WheelerSupply here in Phoenix and he said that there is no way to install a newneoprene seal on a F-134 without first removing the transmission. I had thought about just going with the ropeseal instead but then I would be just going through all this work for no reasonas the rope seals were phased out for a reason. They don't work well. If you're not going to do it right.....
I have already made peace with the fact that the engine mustcome out and am starting to plan for the work accordingly. Just a little sooner than planned or budgetedfor. Oh well, at least I can give it abetter once over while it is out.
Again, sorry if I offended anyone. Just blowing off steam the wrong direction.Thanks again for all the knowledgeable advice I have received thus far.