Options to fix/replace bad T86

My T86 has gone South. I've done as much searching and reading on this site and others as I can (as well as several books and catalogs). Would like discussion on my options (as I see them), and I have some questions on each (facts - 1966 CJ5, 225/T86/D18 - all stock):

1. Rebuild the T86 - probably the simplest and lowest cost. Can I use the Stivers T90 guide to do this?

2. Rebuild the T86 and put T90 guts in it - I have a "free" T90 I can use as a donor - any advantages to this approach other than the slightly lower 1st gear? Why do people generally do this? Has anyone done a writeup on exactly how to do this?

3. SM 465 swap - Seems that the good examples of this tranny are going to cost me $250-$350 or so for the tranny at a salvage yard + the adapter kit from either Novak or AA + the mount. Does this sound about right? Will I typically (if I buy one in good shape) need to rebuild the SM465 or just replace the mainshaft? How hard is replacing the mainshaft - anyone done a writeup on that process? Seems like this produces the overall shortest drivetrain of the swap options. I've seen the SM420 writeup and am assuming the SM465 is similar?

• Scott Milliner sent me a link to these pics: http://scott5038.multiply.com/photos/album/13/SM465_install - thanks Scott!
  
• jzeber sent me a link to these pics: http://picasaweb.google.com/jzeber5/JeepStuff# - thanks jzeber!

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4. Another SM465 option is order one from Herm rebuilt and adapted and ready to bolt in - $1100.

5. Ford T18 swap - Not so sure about this one - just starting to read about it. Not sure this is as feasible as the SM465 since I have the 225/Dauntless in my CJ5. However, based on my initial research, this could be much less $$ that the SM465 option? Has anyone done a writeup on a T18 swap into a 225 situation (a la the SM420 writeup)?

6. I've seen mention of T18's from "PartsMike" that are ready to bolt in, but cannot find that on his web site. Anyone done this with the 225 and D18?

Finally - In doing all of this, is it easier to pull the transfer/tranny out by themsleves and re-install that way OR pull the whole drivetrain (engine and all) and bolt together outside the Jeep and re-install as one unit? I do have an engine hoist.

Looking forward to your thoughts and opinions.

 

What's wrong with your T-86?

I recall that the T-90 guts are used when you have a T-86 with broken gears. Replacement gears for the T-86 are not available AFAIK, except from another transmission. If the T-86 is just worn, then I'd say rebuild it.

To use the T-90 guts, you'll still need a rebuild kit, and I expect you will need the long input shaft from a T-90J too, and your core needs to be a T-90A.

The 4-speed is a whole different kettle of fish.

 

I've done the t-18 swap with a buick v6 in my 3b. went with Novak and love the combo. It's an easier swap then the sm465. you have to get your bell housing opened up on the v6 and turn down the retaining collar on the tranny but you have to do this on the sm465 as well. the t18 is smaller and easier to fit in, also the sm465 needs a press to install the bushings on the main shaft, a real PITA. sm465 is a good swap, I just think over all I like the t-18 better.

 

Well, it was low on oil and I have made an important discovery ... it runs better when it's full of oil.

It still has a very hard time shifting into 3rd ... I havent yet had time to pull the top off of it and look at it, but at minimum, I'm going to have to rebuild it.

Also, it and my D18 both leak live sieves ... anybody ever thought of rigging up a 5 gal. gear oil IV up in the cab that would drip gear oil down a hose to the tranny/x-fer?

I do have access to a nice press to use. However, it looks like I can get a Novak front bearing retainer to fit my existing bellhousing and buy the Novak kit to adapt to the tranny to my D18. My brother may be able to score me a free/cheap Ford T18 - what specifically should I look for (model, shaft length, etc.) to make the adaptation as easy as possible?

Thanks, y'all!

 

when i swapped my t86 for sm465 novak pressed two bushing on for me, so i only had one to put on . made it pretty easy. love that low 1st!

 

why not get a t14 and have a synchro in 1st gear?

 

what i did. you cheapest and easiest upgrade.

 

How often do you downshift into 1st while moving?

The T-14 is certainly more plentiful than the T-86, but beyond parts availability, I don't think it's that much of an improvement over the T-90 or T-86. They still get blown up behind the 225 (Patrick? Somebody wrote about this...) and the 2-3 ratio difference is very large. At 3.1:1, first gear is deeper than the T-86, but not by that much. The T-15 has much better ratios than the T-14 IMO, and is quite a lot stronger, but won't bolt up to the V6 without an adapter or some machining.

 

I guess another thing I don't like about the T86 is that 1st gear is too tall - it'd be nice if I could have a lower gear for first. At least with the SM465 I get a 3.58 or with the T18 I get a 3.09 vs the T86 2.79 first gear (in addition to the "granny" gear the two four speeds offer).

As it is now (T86) I double-clutch down to 1st and still feel like I am too fast pulling into the driveway.

 

My T14 broke and I was not hard on it. Of course I don't know how the PO treated it, but I drove it for 6 months with no problems then one day as I pulled out from a stop light there were strange noises coming from the tranny. The input gear broke 3 teeth and several of the cluster gear teeth are chipped.

 

SM 420
it was super easy and my haigh range low is lower than my low range low used to be with T14, I dont miss the 1st gear syncro at all. I had T90's for so long I put it in 3rd before i got to either 2nd or 1st, and I only use first when I need a chuckle.

 

I have a line on an SM465 for $75 supposedly in good shape - going to look at it this weekend. What should I look for/at when I am inspecting this beast?

 

Make sure it has oil and not water in it and that it shifts smoothly. AMke sure the input shaft turns free and smooth. Other than that the thing is pretty much bulletproof.

 

Shifter pins wear too, but that's an easy fix with new roll pins. If they're worn the shifter will be sloppy from side to side, no big deal unless they back out. I grabbed mine out of the junkyard and used it, but the truck had been on the road about a year before that. They weight close to 200 lbs.

Jeeps make it easy to pull transfer cases because the floor plate comes up, use your engine lift to hold the trans and transfer case while you unbolt it, then pull the new one up the same way. I know I can't press an SM465 up into place. I put an SM465 and a Rockwell T221 in my Jeep by myself using an engine lift. They weigh 3-400 lbs. combined. I've since changed the old Rockwell out for a D300.

 

I have a T-15 that I would like to replace my T-90 with behind my 225 and was wondering if I will have to change the input shaft on the T-15 to a longer one? I have the adapter for the 15 to 225 but it is the same thickness as the T-86 adapter, just diff bolt pattern. Also will the drive shafts have to be redone on length. Tnx

 

Is $75 a reasonable price for a good condition SM465?

I'm looking at one tomorrow and another guy has msg'd me asking me to make him an offer on one in good condition just out of a truck he parted out.

 

Around here $75-$100 is about going rate for a decent core.