Transmission and tcase swap questions

I have a bunch of questions for you guys! Thanks for your help in advanced. I have been in over my head with all of the variations of the swaps I can do on my cj 6...So. I have an opportunity to purchase a SM465 attached to a np205 from a 1 ton chev truck for $100...is there any reason why I shouldn't use the np 205? I have purchased a set of full size 1 ton newly built axles for cheap, a front d44 and a rear 14 bolt. the rear has the diff in the center, and the front has the diff on the passenger side. Is there any clearance issues I should worry about with these axles or the tcase? Thanks again for your assistance! I would like to start installing these items this week.


Brian

BTW the reason I am thinking about going this route is that it is cheap...If I buy an adapter to a d18 or d20, they run around 500 or so, I will and can get the adapter if necessary, but if I can save 500, that would be great,

I also that that running it in a cj6 would be ok because it is longer, but the question is weather or not it would fit between the frame rails...a lot of people have mentioned that it might not fit, but has any one tried it? If not, worst case, because it is cheap, I can purchase it and give it a shot, if it does not fit, I can just get the adapter for the D20...would like to keep the d18, but I think that the 14 bolt will take a lot more abuse than my stock axles.

Thanks!!

 

IIRC a 205 is strong, but has a lousy low range. Plus big and heavy.

You have a tape? Measure the distance between the rails and the size of the NP205.

<edit> If you want cheap, look for a J-truck with a T-18. A NP208 might work with the SM465 adapter. Remember that you've got 20" over a CJ-5, but some of these pickup truck adapters (ie the Ford NP435 adapter) are really long... check out the length too.

 

The 205 has a 1.95 low range, the same as my WWII D18. It is very strong. What motor are you going to run? The 60 hp in my MB could use a little more help from a later D18,but a 300hp small block not so much. If a GM, use the GM transmission. If a Ford, think about that route instead. While the low range isn't great in the 205, the 6.25 first gear of the SM465 makes up for a lot of that.

 

You will not save any money installing this stuff. These are things you will need to spend money on and or have fab work done to make it work.
Crossmember
Spring plates
u-bolts
trans mount
transfercase mount
driveshafts (both)
New rims more than likely
axles are about a foot to long
brakes, MC especially
shocks, due to excessive weight of axles and such.
cutting up the floor pan
I'm sure you will run into more problems as you go.
Not trying to talk you out of it but realize this is a huge costly undertaking to install all of this and make it work right.

 

Thanks Mcruff, I have accounted for most of the items that you have mentioned, (but not all) regardless of what tcase I am going with.. I was assuming with the new trans I would need DS's anyways. I have about 5500 I can spend on this conversion for the trans, tcase axles and adapters lift...I know its not a ton of $$, but I should be able to figure out some type of strong set up with my budget if I can find some decent used parts. I would like to get a T18 and use a dana 300 or my stock d18, but not having luck finding these parts local. If I keep the Dana 18, what other vehicle can I look for that would have a passenger side rear/front 44? Another option is to pick up a ax15, but if I go with a np231 the drop is on the DS instead of the PS and I don't have access to a set of axles that can accommodate this.

 

For $5500 you can buy two (maybe three or more) T-18 Cherokees. Then you have disk-brakes, good width axles, transmission and transfer case all in one. You just need to be more resourceful - the parts are out there.

 

my question is why are you trying to do all this swapping? your profile says you jeep is a '66 cj6 with a v6 and stock running gear. not many of them made. i wouldn't ruin it. what do you plan to do with it?

 

I was planning on holding on to this jeep. For now, I have a JK with a 6" long arm, and 37's (that I would be selling soon) and I used to have a tj with 35's. I would really like to be able to take this thing out on the same trails that I could with my jk/tj with the same reliability. I was thinking that since my cj6 has a trashed transmission, rusted body/with holes all over the floor board and with beadliner spray inside and out, and an engine that is running rough and smoking quite a bit, that I would modify the jeep instead of keeping it stock. While I only have about 5500 to get her up and running now, it doesn't need to be trail ready yet, I can wait a few months to put about the same amount in again. Right now I want to get her drivable, but at the same time not have to re-spend a lot of $ having to change things once again when I am ready to put her on the trail, hope that make sense, thanks for all of your help. My goal is to have her on 35-37's by the end of june, but at the same time have it reliable...just trying to figure out the best way to get there. Thanks again for your help

 

then again, if you guys really think is a really a bad idea to start swaping axles, trans, tcase ect to an old cj6...then I could drop some money into rebuilding the stock transmission, do a valve job and then just leave it as is, except for maybe adding a roll bar for saftey. I could keep it a little while, then sell it....with the money left over from not doing the swap and the money I get from selling the CJ6, I could get a stock cj5-cj7 thats more common, a later model, and a little more suited for offroad...plus easier to modify. But, then I will be like most others, once I saw the cj6 I really loved it, I thought it would be a lot of fun to have something diferent out on the trail with the cj6 instead of the 5 or 7.

 

i agree, something different on the trail is cool. but an all original cj6 going down the road is cooler in my opinion. tranny rebuild kits are not that expensive, unless your gears need to be replaced. better do an inspection before planning to much. and you could have a completely rebuilt motor for roughly $1400-$1500 tops. if it were mine, i'd be looking to gradually be rebuilding it to keep it. but all thats just my opinion. all depends on where your priorities are. just know that if you spend the money to restore it, you usually don't make it all back if you sell it. it's more like a personal investment.

 

Another suggestion - a TH400 fits nicely into a CJ-6. There are lots of TH400 Jeep parts cars out there. That's another way to get a complete drivetrain for short money. Certainly an automatic is a another way to go for a crawler... different, arguably better.

 

hey guys. Good news...Just found out that instead of owing around 5k for taxes, i am actually getting 900 back.. Not sure how that worked out, but its great news for the jeep. So my current budget has now grown from 5500 to about 8500. So...IDK Personally what I am looking for is something diferent that I can build, that is still street legal, is reliable as a late model tj/jk, and can handle anything from a 3.5 trail to a 4.5 trail. Gotta keep a manual though, just personal preference. .. For what it is worth...I did find an AX15 with 59,xxx miles on it, with a stock np231 for $700. I can also get a new set of D44's for the JK for 2800...the question is weather or not I have enough $$ left over to have these items custom fit/installed.

One more thing, My transmission does need new gears, 3 have missing teeth, its in really rough shape, not sure what the PO did to it, haven't seen a trans so ate up

 

the np205 will fit between the frame rails. you will most likely, as mcruff mentioned, have to cut the floor to make room for the height and a bit of clearance next to where the speedometer cable will connect. regarding the crossmember, you can grab the donor's crossmember as well and narrow it.

 

the wheel mounting surface of these axles will be just about aligned with the body so whatever rim you choose, plan on having the full width of your wheels sticking out past the body. the distance between perches on those dana 44's are wider than the frame rails so you will either outboard the spring mounts or narrow the axle. the 14 bolt's pumpkin, you will see mentioned repeatedly in the internet, hangs low..so keep your tire/wheel size in mind. pointing the pinion yoke towards the t-case and using a double cardan joint for the driveshaft will give the pumpkin a little bit of ground clearance but that will make the diff cover more exposed to things sticking out of the ground. i'm not saying convert to double cardan so you can rotate the pumpkin just for the sake of clearance but...

you will now be SOA with about a 6-7 inch lift. you will most likely need a driveshaft set up designed for high angles anyway...

i assume you're gonna change to wider springs? if you are, keep in mind the rear shackles you select. the set of shackles i bought were huge and got in the way of the rear tank when i did the rear tank conversion. will you be doing a rear tank conversion in the future?

do you have your steering converted to saginaw? you might have to do this also for the 44 front.

 

so another option came up this afternoon. I found a set of Dana 44's with Yucon Shafts from a Scout that are currently under a 76 CJ7 and they are set up for spring over. If I got these I would use a D20 Tcase for now. SO....my problem is that the early Cj6 frame is narrower than the later CJ7's, I am assuming that I would still need to have some fab work done, to get them to work on the older CJ...Thinking that modifying the perches on the axles is easier than trying to modify the frame...Is this a bad route? Any worse or better than going with the 10 bolt and the other 44 I was telling you about?

Is there actually an easy conversion somewhere, a stronger axle set up than what is stock, but is easy to adapt to the Early CJ6 and still use the stock D18? Thanks for your help... I am pretty confused...have about 8k I can put into drive line, I know where I would like to be, just not how to get there:?

 

You need to decide what you want first. You are buying parts and changing your mind after the money is spent. Good way to lose lots of money. Why not just buy a nice original CJ-7 and drive it?

With your fullsize axles, you can run Humvee beadlocks and make up for a lot of the axle width, they have 7 inches of backspacing on an 8.25" rim, but your are stuck with 16.5 tires.

 

I understand. The only thing that I have bought are the axles, but I don't feel obligated to use them, they were just a good deal and I have a friend who will take them for what I bought if needed. Is there any decent aftermarket parts for the stock axles? What kind of tire size can I expect to use reliably on tougher trails with the stock axles? Can you get Electric or air lockers for the stock axles? Thanks for your help again,

Brian

 

The factory axle for a late 70 thru 71 is a flanged 44, the strongest 44 put in cj's from the factory. The Scout 44's are a good swap but not a bolt in. I have a friend that runs them on a 77 cj5, the springs are out boarded though and the front knuckles were cut loose and re welded to allow for caster in the steering.

 

Well...I am not sure if I am going to be able to make a decision b4 friday...If I can't decide what to do by the end of the week, I will just have the stock trans rebuilt for now, and then get all of the other odds and ends I want to fix up, like heater, brake lights, tighten steering, engine rebuilt (that would be nice!)... what to do with the drive line is a pretty big decision for me as I plan on keeping this jeep long term...I don't want to go down one path, and decide that I don't like it and then have to redo everything later...maybe I will fix the stock trans, do the other odds and ends for now. If I do all of this instead of messing with driveline, it could then be a pretty reliable cj6 and I would still have enough money to buy another later model cj7 ...but then have no extra money to put into it, and not a happy wife lol. who knows. or if I have about 5k left,after rebuild of stock trans I could even fix some of the rust, and take off the home made rhino lining junk. thanks for all of your patience and help.

Brian