Holbrook Long Leafs, and a few other ???s

I've got some questions for any of you out there who are running Holbrook's long leaf springs - I know I've run across a few of you out there. Ignore the info in the sig at the bottom - my son seems to have stolen the CJ from me so I picked up a M38 from someone abusing it under a tarp behind a shed. I adopted it, and now I'm picking it into pieces in the garage. Pardon the message length but I'll try to give a little background.

Current status - body in pretty good shape. Someone did a fair job of swapping in a Ford v6, T18 tranny, and D20 transfer case. Not in running condition when I towed it home, but the drive train combo was part of the reason I picked it up so I rolled the dice. Pleased to find that after a little work it starts and runs, Trans and T-case all seem to work at least passably for the moment.

Axles are toast. Original front with some franken-brake disc setup which I haven't (and won't) dig into, and isn't currently working; original back with Warn hub conversion - grinding like it's full of axle-ends and crumbled metal bits. I'll probably keep the back (this weekend's project) and sell off the front for a D44. Anyone in Western Washington interested that isn't underwater tonight, drop me a line.

My plan is to go Old Skool with this one - turn it into a capable NW trail rig that is as true to its heritage as possible, but not a true resto by any means. I do intend that anything I change either make it more capable, or move it closer to original style equipment. D44s front and back, locked rear (I'll see whats in there now...), possibly Ox locker up front, and keep the 5.38 gears. Thinking about going with the pizza cutter swampers to round out the look.

Questions:
After doing quite a bit of investigating (and learning from a few mis-steps on the CJ) I've got a set of Holbrook long leafs on order now. Nice folks! and they're local to me too. What kind of tire size fit can I expect with these? At the moment there's a 1" body lift on as well which I'll probably leave.
With the Holbrooks, I'm assuming I won't get all the benefit of the suspension travel without extending the upper shock mounts. What have you done? Looking specifically at the front it looks like with the extended spring length rearward I would be better to relocate the shock behind the axle instead of in front. Opinions?
Shocks - what are you running? (Especially you guys running long-leafs) No sense running something too heavy-duty in a rig that hardly weighs more than my dog.
Front locker - who has experience with Ox Lockers? Like them in a Willys?
Front forward floorboards, lower firewall and tranny cover have been pretty well bubba'd up with a sawzall. Anyone have a lead on someone in the NW good enough with sheet metal that they can patch this up? This one's beyond my meager skills.

Again, sorry for the long post. Having an absolute kick in the *** with it so far, and looking forward to joining the flattie club. Pix will follow shortly.

 

First, Welcome from Portland, OR! Nice flatty, looks like a great start!
An adjustable shock like the RS 9000 is a great way to go as it is tuneable to driving conditions. Can stiffen it up for street and then soften it up for the trail as needed.
The Holbrook long leafs are an excellent way to go. Should give about 3" of lift. 33" tires is no problem with these springs. With the 1" body lift you shouldn't have any issue with the 34" I think it's the LTB's some of the guys here are running. I've got a set of those springs waiting to go on a project Jeep. I was fortunate to drive one of the prototype sets in Utah and they work awesome. They will give some body roll on the street though so be prepared for that, but once you're used to it it is no problem. You're right, they are very nice folks. Known Ed, Gary, and David for years. Used to go in their shop with my dad when a kid looking for parts for his '43 GPW. Work right up the street from them currently.
Common upper shock mounts to use are Wagoneer/PU front shock mounts as they bolt to the frame so are removed from the donor easily. They are (going from memory) about 9-10" long so will help tremendously. Another shock mount to use is the Ford F-250 or F-350 style. IIRC The F-350 is a cast bolt on piece so may be hard to weld but is about the same length as the Wagoneer/PU mount. The F-250 mounts I have are a Stamped steel piece that can easily be shortened, welded, etc. These can be had for less than $20 each at most Ford dealers, although they may need to be ordered. I can get some measurements tonight on the Wagoneer and F-250 mounts tonight if you like as I have both sitting in the garage.

R&P is another source for parts that is local to you (Just south of Portland). can be reached at 503-557-8911. If you want to see what the Holbrook springs look like on a flatty, Richard (the "R" in R&P) has the prototype set on his 3b. They can help in other areas also. They build 44 and 60 front and rears, T-18's, 2 1/2-1 model 20's, etc., etc.

Can't help with the sheet metal but get involved with a club in your area and I bet someone can help you out.
My best friend is in Auburn so maybe when I'm up in the area we could get together for a or something. There's talk of those of us in this area meeting up for pizza and somewhere centrally located. Nickmil

 

Man that Jeep is cool already. Clean it up with the axles and the front bumper and it looks ready.

Question? You said that extending the shock towers helps the travel. Why?

I have destroyed my drivers side shock body already and need to come up with somehting differetn

 

On a really soft or flexy suspension you need a longer shock to utilize the increased travel afforded by the new suspension. The short stock shocks frequently can't accommodate the longer travel springs so a longer shock is necessary or the shock becomes the limiting factor. The only way to put in a longer shock is to re-mount the shock in a different manner or to extend the shock towers/install longer shock mounts. That's why the waggy or Ford truck mounts are popular to use. Cheap and generally readily available plus you can bolt them on if you don't want to weld 'em in place. Nickmil

 

SO the Wagoneer mounts will work without cutting the fender inners or rubbing on the tire?

The Jeep in the online article I saw about those mounts had the wide track CJ axles. Just looking at the tire clearance, I'd think you'd have interference problems if the shock mount is not moved vertically from its current location. The Wagoneer mounts move the position of the top mount outward to clear the fender inners. You can go straight up if you cut the fender inners, and put the new mount on top of the frame. This should give you the same tire clearance as the original mounts, and allow a longer shock.

As I said above, I've only looked at the angles, but that's what it looks like to me. I'd be happy to be corrected, since the Ford or Wagoneer mounts would be much a much easier mod for narrow track CJs.

In the rear, you're pretty much stuck with cutting the body or using the stock length shocks if you keep the kind of geometry the axle already has. You might be able to move the shocks to the inside of the axle, and angle toward the center. I don't recall if the crossmember is in the right place for that, but if not, you'd have to add a new crossmember for the upper shock mounts.

<edit> Here's the writeup I was thinking of: http://www.in2jeep.com/fordshockmt.htm From this article, stock mounts from an '85 CJ might work also. They resemble the Wagoneer mounts, though they look a bit shorter to me.

 

You're right Timgr. I should've mentioned that also. The waggy or Ford stamped steel mounts can be easily cut to make the shock mount more vertical so axle width isn't an issue but then need to be welded in place and the inner fender trimmed for clearance. If you go with a wider axle then the mounts can be used as is pretty much, although the angle may need to be adjusted. The key here is how the shocks are mounted and checking clearance very close before final mounting.
The front is where you'll really gain some flex. Richard actually left the stock mounts in place on his 3b but the real limitation with his shocks isn't really up travel as the body to tire clearance is the limiting factor. The issue is the stock shock locations and shorter shocks are actually limiting down travel of the springs. This is where the longer shocks are the advantage with these springs. These springs are still a worthwhile upgrade even if you don't go with longer shocks. The ride on these things even on washboard roads is unbelievable for a short wheel base Jeep and flex is very good.
Thanks for the clarification Timgr! Nickmil

 

I have always been impressed with Willysworker's flatty out of Spokane.
He has a photo bucket that shows off his work.
And I believe it has Holbrook's on it.
Some really good fab idea's there.

I dont have the link but someone here does I bet.
He might be lurking as well so he may post for you.

 

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2174452

 

Thanks all for the input. I came across some F-250 mounts already and thought they had promise. Too cheap to pass up so I picked them up. Depending on exact placement I can mount them with little or no trimming in the fenderwell - I'll post some pictures when I get that far. Tire clearance would be an issue with stock axle, but I'll go with a little wider track and be careful with my choice of wheel offset.
Nickmil - for the advice I've pulled off this site over the last couple years that you never knew you gave me, I'll spring for the pizza and beer any day.

Warloch - rig looks nice! would you go with the same model shocks again?

One last question: any drawbacks to repositioning the shocks to behind the front axle?

 

Just glad to be of any help! Regarding the shocks behind the axle, they won't be quite as effective because the shock will be extending (rebound) as the suspension compresses and because of the angle they will be operating. IIRC later Jeeps did have them behind the axle (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) and with an adjustable shock you should be able to compensate. With the shock in front and front mounted shackles as the suspension compresses it is pushing straighter on the shock rod and piston making the shock more effective but ride is also stiffer. With the shock at an angle or behind the axle then the shock is pivoting on the mount more and pushing on the rod and piston less making the shock less effective. Hope this makes sense... Nickmil