Rookie Rebuilder

Greetings from St. Louis, MO.

I inherited an all-stock 1972 CJ-5 232ci / 3sp. Dana 44/30 3.73's are married to a Dana 20. The vehicle has less than 12,000 original miles all clocked as a farm vehicle in the Ozarks. She starts, runs and shifts fine. There appear to be no major leaks only minor grime. Stopping is currently an issue. No brakes!

Its current condition is average at best. The frame appears solid showing some rust / pitting near the rear wheels. The tub is beat up and dislodged due to rust from the frame at each of the passenger side body mounts. I will need new fenders, seats and a roll bar.

In the interest of bringing the vehicle to near its original condition, but to make it as road worthy as possible, I have acquired the following:

*Dana 30 transaxel with disk brake axel / spindle, knuckles and caliper/disks.
*Power steering box, pump and hoses.
*Power assisted master cylinder and brake lines.

Each are from later CJ's and I believe, interchangable with the 1972.

OK, so here are my mechanical questions/issues:

* will the disk brake axels have the same number of splines at the transfer case as those that I remove from the original transaxel?
* do I have to change out the original steering column when switching out the manual steering box for the power?
* does my CJ already have a brake line balancer? How best to to marry the disks to the rear drums and the power master cylinder?
* plan to purchase and install new wiring harness.

And the finishing questions:

* I want to reuse the tub but need to replace the front fenders. I need a restoration body shop in St. Louis. Is this a better option than replacement tub kits?
* Did the original vehicle have seat belts? Newer seats safer than original? Where to find?
* What size wheel (inside dimension) will work with the newly install disk brakes?

I would appreciate any feedback and will actively participate in the board as I make progress.

Questions, thoughts, suggestions?

 

First, welcome from Portland, OR!

Again, Welcome aboard! Lots of friendly, helpful folks. Also, we love pics so if you could post some up that would be great! Also go to the introductions section and, well, introduce yourself and fill out your profile. Someone may be around the corner from you that can help out. Nickmil

 

Welcome from Arizona!

You found the right website! There are lots of people here that can help you. Just post as many pics as you can step by step, and you'll have her running in no time!

 

:uwop:

 

Sorry, had to do that

 

You'll get alot of the above, if you don't have pictures ready...
Oh, and have the urban dictionary bookmarked, if you don't know what IIRC, IMHO, YMMV, etc. mean. R)
Welcome, from SW Washington.

 

Are you really hot for disc brakes? Seems like fixing your drums would be a lot easier than swapping in all the disc brake parts. However, if your drum components are a complete loss might as well replace with discs. I think you could swap the disc knuckles onto the drum axle and be done with it. Keep in mind that your axles are narrow-track and later axles will be a tad wider. Not sure what year they changed.

You might consider getting the old rig roadworthy and enjoying it as-is before spending a lot of money making it nice. I seem to always be working on Jeeps that I never get to drive. I'm working on my second Jeep and have probably logged 20 miles total on BOTH!! And after driving it a while you'll have a better sense of what can be fixed and what MUST be fixed.

Chilly

 

Now there is a clear thought! I am not very good at being reasonable. The disk conversion idea came about for two reasons. One, I found the axel/knuckle and spindle relatively cheap ($50.00) and I have this faint memory of my 1941 Chevy locking up the front right wheel in rain. Now that it is possible my kids may drive this Jeep on city streets occassionally, I thought...mmm...maybe disks are better. My priority should be getting the tub secured back to the frame!

 

Check out the technical library on the Home Page. there is an excellent series on brakes. Be sure to use the 'search' feature since most often, what you want to ask has been asked, and last but not least, read the stickys and threads that Sparky has put together for the 'new' posters.
Good luck and Have Fun!

 

With all respect my newfound bretren, I am having difficulty figuring out how to post ten (10 )megapixel .JPEG files to the site. The one shot that I was sucessful in posting was reduced three (3) times. Plan to reshoot with the Canon Sureshot 80!

 

I usually make 640x480 (ca 0.3 Mpel) pics for posting online. That's a good size for the resolution of most computer screens. 320x240 is good for something that doesn't need much detail - that's about snapshot size. A freeware program like PIXresizer will reduce your pictures to any size you want.

Regarding the brakes, you don't want to change the entire axle, since the gear ratio of the new axle will almost certainly be different. Later axles will have higher (lower numerically) axle ratios. The front and rear axle ratios must match.

If you change to disks, the best way would be to swap everything from the knuckle outward. This has been covered many times before here, if you search you'll find plenty of discussion.

A '72 won't have a factory proportioning valve. The 11" drum brakes are quite good ...

There's a '72 manual online at www.c104.net - it says Jeepster manual, but there's only one factory manual for 1972.

I would hold off on rewiring - why do you think you need it? IMO (in my opinion) too many owners rip out factory wiring that is just fine in frustration, when a zen-like approach would overcome. Wiring is complicated if you try to comprehend it all at once, but simple if you consider it one circuit at a time. I recommend a patient and stepwise approach to repair the original harness.

hth! (hope this helps)

 

Up grading to power disc brakes is a great upgrade, it was my first change to my jeep after a mud filled drum put me in a ditch like chilly said its just a matter of changing out the knuckles depending on which year axle you have. You can do a search here and will come up with lots of information.
I'm using a 82 cj manual master cylinder which bolted up after i switched the pushrods with with the OE master cylinder. I also use ajustable brake bias adjuster, you can pick one up for around $40 at a speed shop.

 

Re: Rookie Rebuilder Pics

I posted a few photos as part of my introduction to the forum, but here are a few more for you technicians.

I really need to know if the tub can be salvaged (at a reasonable cost). The span that supports the body is rotted away at the passenger side frame. Plenty of dents and certainly, a re-paint. I imagine new fenders are a necessity.

Note the condition of the frame, gas tank and axel housings; can these be cleaned up?
Is sand blasting the best method?

The floorboards are intact but not as solid as they should be. I anticipate having sheet metal welded into place. But at that cost...should I just replace the whole tub?

 

That body is just fine. It can be fixed. If you have to pay someone to do it you might be close to price of new, but don't junk the tub if you do replace it. Someone can use it if you don't want it.

Frame looks really nice too, considering age. Looks like there is still paint on it in places. If you do a frame-off resto you can blast it and repaint. Otherwise, just have it sprayed with oil.

Gas tanks are cheap enough (~$100) so I wouldn't spend too much time on an old rusty one if your time is worth anything. You'll have $25-$40 in tank sealer (the stuff you pour into your tank and swirl around, along with all the prep chemicals).

I don't recommend blasting axles unless you're completely tearing the axle apart. Especially the front axle because it's open-knuckle and media will be blown into it. Don't let the rust bother your mind until/unless you're ready for a multi-year frame-up restoration/refurb. However, it's not too hard to roll the axles out, clean up with degreaser and wire cup, wash with hot water and Simple Green, then paint with POR 15. If your Jeep is comparable to most of our piles you'll need to replace at least spring bushings and shackles, maybe springs. That'll be a good time to clean up the axles.

Don't jump into this too fast like I did. I ended up doing a frame-up resto which wasn't the original plan. But things escalated. Read the thread "What would you do different". Lots of valuable hindsight from guys who have done it.

Chilly

 

Great advise, thanks. I know that once I pull the tub and fenders, I am in for a long project. How could I look at that old wiring and clogged hydraulic lines without fixin' them? Then...well you know. More to come.

 

I looked at your pictures. Your Jeep is in very good condition. I would be happy to start out with one in as good a shape as that. If it were mine, I'd patch it up and drive it without making any heroic efforts.

The body repairs are minor. Rusted floors are common, and the replacement panels and reinforcements (hat channels) are available. Either you or a local body shop can easily replace those if the tub is removed from the frame. Replacing the tub would be a HUGE mistake. That tub is in very good condition, and the quality of the original tub is much better than the replacement tubs, and replacement tubs are expensive. You are very unlikely to find an original replacement tub in better condition than that.

Surface rust on the frame and fuel tank is not of concern unless the tank leaks. I would paint over those areas with a good rust-encapsulating paint (Eastwood, Rust Bullet, POR-15, etc) and not worry about them. If the fuel tank leaks, replace it.

Re the power brakes, I expect the later power brake units will not bolt on without interfering with the carburetor (as hudson hawk wrote). Realize that the CJ-5 changed a lot in 1976, and that most parts from these later Jeeps are not interchangeable with your Jeep. However, these vehicles were available with power brakes and the 6-cylinder engine, so it can be done with the right aftermarket parts.

Show us more pics: interior, dash, under the hood.

 

Thanks timgr and chilly!

You guys are helping me to see the simplicity in my rebuild. If left alone, I certainly would be going overboard in time and expense.

For your viewing pleasure, here are more photos.

Keep the comments coming!

JB

 

Whatever you do don't junk / ruin your gas filler neck (the metal part the cap screws into)! Mine was rusted badly and it took me a year to find one. All other gas tank components easy to find except that one. I bought some rocker panel patches and it came out well. Some pics of before and after patch panels: www.Danasjeeps.com

 

There's also a bulkhead fitting in the filler neck that is NLA and hard to find used - keep everything until you are completely done, then a few months more. If you have room, stash any take-offs in the back 40 somewhere.

The dash and interior look great - I was expecting a rats nest of wires, but that's very clean. Under the hood too. Use the existing wiring - nothing wrong with it. Rear floor is a little banged up, but I'd paint it and consider it "patina."

The 2/3-1/3 bench seat is a little unusual - if you don't like it, someone will want it. Buff is one of the two colors available, and those may be the original covers.

The exterior color looks original - "Canary Yellow." http://www.tcpglobal.com/aclchip.aspx?image=1972-jeep-pg01.jpg
There should be a paint and trim code code badge under the hood on the passenger side firewall, which will confirm the paint and upholstery color.

Nice Jeep! Get it roadworthy and drive it! You'll be hooked for sure! If you've never owned a Jeep, you'll be surprised at where it can go and what it can do in plain factory trim.

 

AND, regarding your power steering pump, did you get all the pulleys? There are several variations, and you'll likely need everything from the front of the engine to mount that pump on your engine - pump, bracket, crank pulley, alternator brackets, and waterpump. Your manifold is probably not drilled for drivers side mount of the PS pump, as you have here. Also, the frame bracket on the PS gear changes in 1976, so you can't use that one. The gear will fit, but the PS bracket has 4 bolt holes, while the manual steering bracket has three. The PS gear will bolt up, but the 3-bolt bracket is a little weaker than the 4-bolt bracket.

I'd suggest you try the manual steering - it's ok for just about all drivers with the stock sized tires. No big hurry to complete the PS project.