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T18 Again Push Gears forward?

Discussion in 'Early CJ5 and CJ6 Tech' started by DanStew, Oct 4, 2007.

  1. Oct 4, 2007
    DanStew

    DanStew Preowned Merkin salesman Staff Member

    Lexington, South...
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    I jsut installed my new bearing in the transmission. I still have a gap between the synchro and the input shaft. What am i missing or how do i get the gears pushed forward? What am i missing? Right now i have changed the front input bearing. I have both wide and skinny input bearings and they both are leaving a gap. Soooo something is amiss elsewhere. I guess i have to pull off the tcase to have a look. I have heard a spacer mentioned but i am not sure if i used it, or if i did i may have used the t98s or the t18, it has been a while. But what is the next step :(
     
    DanStew, Oct 4, 2007
    #1
  2. Oct 4, 2007
    bergy9

    bergy9 Jeep Maffia, CJ 5 Chapter

    Lincoln City, OR
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    Do you by chance have a copy of the Jeep CJ Rebuilders Manual by Moses Ludel. I know he shows pretty much how to take everything on a Jeep apart, and then rebuild it with plenty of photo's as well.
     
    bergy9, Oct 4, 2007
    #2
  3. Oct 4, 2007
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    jpflat2a, Oct 4, 2007
    #3
  4. Oct 4, 2007
    DanStew

    DanStew Preowned Merkin salesman Staff Member

    Lexington, South...
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    do you have a description of what # 42 and 43 are? I was thinknig bout the bearing before i installed it tonight. The bearings, wide and skinny, both have a snap ring around th bearing which stops against the case when pushed on the shaft. Well the bearings have the same space between the edge of the bearing and the snap ring, so this tells me that the bearing wont do anything to push the input shfat back to the synchro. So what is the purpose of the wide and skinny input bearings? Stinks because i just bought thebearing and cant use it, or i can but i think i would rather have a larger bearing for a little extra insurance. But I am guessing something is amiss in the rear of thecase.
     
    DanStew, Oct 4, 2007
    #4
  5. Oct 4, 2007
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    42 = oil seal
    43 = spacer on the mainshaft, says it's for speedo ? that's in the transfer case not the trans ????
     
    jpflat2a, Oct 4, 2007
    #5
  6. Oct 4, 2007
    jpflat2a

    jpflat2a what's that noise?

    Hermosa, SD
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    are you missing any snap ring(s) on the main shaft ?
     
    jpflat2a, Oct 4, 2007
    #6
  7. Oct 4, 2007
    Glenn

    Glenn Kinda grumpy old man Staff Member

    Apopka, Fl
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    The edge of the snap ring on the thicker bearing will be farther out on the input shaft which will make the drive portion of the shaft be farther in the transmission. Isn't that the situation now?
     
    Glenn, Oct 4, 2007
    #7
  8. Oct 4, 2007
    DanStew

    DanStew Preowned Merkin salesman Staff Member

    Lexington, South...
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    Well i just pulled off the new bearing and started to size them up.


    they are the same bearing.

    I check the invoice.. it says narrow bearing. :( :( :(

    I am besides myself now.

    So something has been interpretated wrong.

    OK. I have the space between synchro and input shaft. $th gear pops out of gear. I call Eric and tell him what is wrong and i am lookngi for the thicker bearing, i "believe" i told him my original bearing number ( that i got from them), he gives me the number so i can find locally. I cant get it locally so i call Novak back and got a different person on the phone. I say I want the bearing nubmer i got from eric. He says fine, they got it, they send it to me. Well i get it, install it, it doeswnt work. I measure, it is the same as the other bearing. I check invoice and it says "narrow" bearing for T18. So this is where i am at. I will give Novak a call tomorrow, possibly they will let me return the bearing for the other one.

    So the bearing numbers on my old bearing is BCA 308LI
    The new bearing number is BB1-1308 NVRBEFS USA 14 290B SKF
     
    DanStew, Oct 4, 2007
    #8
  9. Oct 5, 2007
    xlr8n

    xlr8n Member

    Sparks, Nv.
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    Dan - Sorry to hear about the mix up on the bearings. I was unable to locate my receipt for the wide bearing that I purchased from PartsMike.com (530)885-0673. I called and got the wide bearing part number of 308 for the T18. They have one in stock.
     
    xlr8n, Oct 5, 2007
    #9
  10. Oct 5, 2007
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Don't have the part #'s here but R&P has those in stock normally too. 503=557-8911.The wide front bearing is the same as the rear output bearing. Nickmil
     
    nickmil, Oct 5, 2007
    #10
  11. Oct 5, 2007
    DanStew

    DanStew Preowned Merkin salesman Staff Member

    Lexington, South...
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    Nick how does the bearing push the input shaft back to close the gap between the synchro and the gear?
     
    DanStew, Oct 5, 2007
    #11
  12. Oct 5, 2007
    xlr8n

    xlr8n Member

    Sparks, Nv.
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    Nickmil can probably explain it better than I but since I have been down this same road I'll give it a shot.

    The outer snap ring on the bearing resides in the same location for both the wide/narrow bearings. This means either bearing has the same amount of bearing protruding outward or outside the case. When the wider bearing is assembled onto the input shaft it will protrude further inside the case, resulting in the input shaft further inside the case, thus closing the gap you are seeing between the syncro and 4th gear.

    I probably explained that clear as mud.
     
    xlr8n, Oct 5, 2007
    #12
  13. Oct 5, 2007
    DanStew

    DanStew Preowned Merkin salesman Staff Member

    Lexington, South...
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    I can picture that, but i am thinknig since the front portion of th ebearings are the same, it still will index on the input shaft the same, and is limited by the snap ring on the input shaft to prevent the bearing from walking forwar. The snap ring groove on the input shaft will prevent the input shaft from going any further into the case. Does this make sense? I jsut called Novak and they are sending out the bearing
     
    DanStew, Oct 5, 2007
    #13
  14. Oct 5, 2007
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    The bearing is the same from the outer snap ring groove to the outside of the case portion of the bearing. Same diameter, same depth, etc. From the outer snap ring groove to the inside of the case the bearing is thicker which pushes the input shaft deeper into the case and towards the 3-4 synchronizer assembly. The input shaft is machined to accept the thicker bearing between the gear portion of the shaft and the input bearing snap ring groove, but the shaft isn't any longer in this area. Hence using the thicker bearing forces the input shaft/gear farther into the case and closer to the 3-4 synchro assembly. Nickmil
     
    nickmil, Oct 5, 2007
    #14
  15. Oct 5, 2007
    DanStew

    DanStew Preowned Merkin salesman Staff Member

    Lexington, South...
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    Thanks Nick.
     
    DanStew, Oct 5, 2007
    #15
  16. Oct 8, 2007
    nickmil

    nickmil In mothballs.

    Happy Valley, OR
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    Here's a couple of pics that show the difference and the relationships between the two. Just so happens I built a T-18 to 300 this weekend and was able to take pics. The narrow input bearing uses a slinger or splash shield. The thicker bearing does not. You can see the input gear differences to allow for the thicker bearing. The input that requires the thicker bearing that has the thin bearing and slinger next to it you can see a slight gap between the bearing and snap ring groove which would allow the snap ring to be real loose. With thrust caused by the helical cut gears the input gear is forced forward against the bearing which in turn is forced forward against the outer bearing snap ring and front bearing retainer causing a gap between the 3-4 synchronizer assembly and the input gear. This can cause the trans to jump out of gear. The same input with the thicker bearing (same as output bearing) and no slinger you can see the bearing race actually protrudes slightly into the snap ring groove area just barely allowing the snap ring to be installed. This is correct.

    The thinner bearing is .785" thick measured with a mic. Part # is 308L1 or SKF # 2308NVBEF
    The thicker bearing is .904" thick measured with a mic. Part # is 6308N (again, same as output bearing).

    The slinger/shield measured .031" with a mic.

    Mods, Sparky, or whomever, can we put this stuff in the tech library or archives? Seems this question comes up more and more often.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2007
    nickmil, Oct 8, 2007
    #16
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