ford small block / C4 swap

Looking for opinions, advice, and tech help on my soon to be winter project. As of right now, my ride is a running 72 cj5,T-14,232,dana20.
The jeep has a 2" set of pro comp springs,front shackle reversal,extended rear shackles ( to level the rear ), 35x12.50x15 baja claw radials ( they actually measure 32.75 inches with 28 lbs in them),and a 2'' body lift (that is about to become a 1" body lift).

My stockpiled parts i would like to swap in are: 1970 torino 302/C4, advance adapters motor mounts, and the steel adapter from a C4 to a jeep dana 20 case. I only have the adapter, not the mainshaft or races and such. I have contacted A.A. and the parts i need are readily availible for around 300.00. My reason for the swap is the 232 has a knock and the trans. grinds like h**l once warm. Seems like a good idea on paper but any and all opinions and ideas would be appreciated.

 

Don't know about length of the C4 specifically, but you might take a tape to it and compare to the length of the TH350 from the Novak site. The AMC V8 is a few inches shorter than the 232/258, and I'd expect the Ford V8 to be also.

I recall a couple of things - I think the mounts are easy if you substitute a second LH mount for the RH mount, or something like that. Also, there's a short waterpump (from the late 5.0L?) that makes the OAL shorter. May not be needed in an intermediate, since the AMC V8 fits fine.

 

My understanding is the auto in a 5 gets pretty long. Add in some length for a transfer case adapter and they get really long. That being said, I did some research on autos for my jeep as my clutch leg isn't all it could be. The C4 is about the shortest auto I could find. As far as using a ford motor in a jeep, I did one in my 48 2A. The biggest problem I had was non availability of a stubby water pump. That was back in the early 80s tho so I don't know what is available now.

So with the length issue then comes the cooling issue. You run out of room for radiator and fan. Now days there are affordable aluminum radiators available tho. Also, the electric fans are a lot nicer now and can be found pancake thin that will do the job.

Sounds like it would be a cool setup. I also think it is very doable. I have a buddy that did it in a YJ. He has some issues with his radiator but I think more based on motor placement than lack of space.

 

Very interesting about the water pump from a late model 5.0. Will have to research that. Thanks.
If i am correct, the radiator inlet and outlet are correct for a ford v8. Electric fan may be more necessary than i thought though. My real concern all along has been driveshaft length. I mostly play in mud and sand, so its not like i would ever tweak the suspension to its max. Right now there shims (2 degree) in the rear, but thats a scenario i really haven't got to yet.

 

I'm not sure on differing waterpump lengths, but the late 5.0's run a serpentine belt which uses a reverse rotation waterpump and a timing cover compatable with that waterpump.
so if you are running standard belts DO NOT use a late 5.0 reverse rotation waterpump or you will overheat real quick.

moral of the story - don't mix timing covers and waterpumps between the reverse rotation serpentine belt setup and the standard rotation standard belt setup.

there are many other incompatibility issues with the ford 302/5.0 over it's 30 year production run that you would never be aware of until you run the motor and realize something is wrong. other issues include flywheel/dampner imbalance factors and distributor/cam gears compatibility. if you decide to go with this motor feel free to PM me with any compatibility issues you may have. i've rebuilt and run several of these motors from each decade it's been in production. in my opinion the small block windsor ford is one of the greatest engines ever built, and it has huge aftermarket support.

 

Hello,
I seem to remember from my old Hot Rod days that there was a a short water pump for the small block Fords, and also the Ford Bronco had a rear sump oil pan for the the small block Ford. Mite want to look into those two options. Other than that I like the Small block Fords, I think they may be a little bit narrower than the SBC and the Distributer is up front.

 

The C-4 adapted is slightly shorter than any other auto adapted except the two speed powerglide. The 302/C-4 is a great combo. Parts are readily available, they are easy to work on, no distributor clearance issues, just watch out as was said for compatibility issues with the late model stuff. All this coming from someone who doesn't like Fords! You can get a rear sump pan and pick up from an Early Bronco or from some Ford Vans. If you can't locate one and decide to go this route contact Paul at R&P. He's got one hanging on the wall for a project that took a different direction. I believe it's his personal parts not the business's. Nickmil

 

The C4 tranny is one of the shortest available with a case length of approx 11". This compares with the SM420 at 10.5". Only prob is the 2.54 first gear ratio - kinda tall for crawling. Might need some deep gears in the t/c and axles.

The th350 and th400 are around 20.5" and 21.5" respectively - that would get your short wheel base in trouble with driveshaft angles.

HTH

 

WOW! Thanks for the responses. you folks have been very helpful.