Squirting Primer and Paint

I was looking at the way-back version of the site...

I ran across this thread - How much paint for CJ-5 | EarlyCJ5.com

Here's what I'm doing:
Rustoleum Pro Rusty Metal Primer
Mystic Hardener (tractor supply company brand I think)
Mystic Reducer

I've been mixing about 2oz. of hardener and 2oz. cup reducer into a 16oz plastic then adding the rest of paint (enough freeboard I can use my mixing stick w/o slopping it out too badly).

I'm using an Harbor Freight HLVP 1.4 sprayer (purple model), $10 or so.

I currently have two fenders primered and drying (images coming shortly) that I beat into shape, welded and skim coated with bondo (now I read, I might ought to have used a different product)... the fenders were like many, cracked from flex, dinged and dented... they are not perfect but from 10ft, they look decent.

In the picts below, there looks like 'light' globs: not so much, just the 'pollen' that's on the dry pieces as they sit there.

I'm open to suggestions if something looks wonked.





On this fender, the front was 'beat' ... I used a lot of small wire, dollies, hammers and a sanding wheel to try to put it back into shape. Very little bondo, just around the 'lip' I had to rebuild as it runs across the top of the wheel well. Kind of hit that spot of 'good enough for now.'


I had just about everything sandblasted; then I rattle-can'd it all with rustyoluem self-etch primer. It's been outside for a while and has some patina / flash rust I've been taking care of prior to prep.

Now that I have traction on this thing again, I'm looking at buying paint...

I might go with the 'close enough' color from TCP Global ($55/gal) or I might have Spruce Tip Green mixed for the win at $140/gallon... hard to look at 'close enough for 1/3 the price and ignore it'.

SO, as I look at this prior thread, I will be painting inside, outside, under the hood, in the crevices, etc... and I'm thinking I need two gallons so I don't run out. Plus this will give me enough for fixing 'Nevada pinstripes' if I ever get out in the woods with it (a lot of ice cream runs need to be taken first)...

I see this as a 4:1 single stage urethane... so I'm looking at getting the appropriate reducers.

Can someone help me with the reducers? I see acetone is a 'fast' reducer: and that's what you need for 'hot temps'? We're only in the low 70's and I'm hoping to have this done before it hits the 80's...

Should I just get the appropriate reducers from the vendor (based on guestimated temp)?

More questions soon...

Thanks!
Dane

 

Should I just get the appropriate reducers from the vendor (based on guestimated temp)?



IMHAO....This!

 

Get what's recommended for the primer and paint you are using unless you want to take a huge chance of having to do it all over again.

 

only use the manufacturers reducer and hardener. You can chance it, but it may not have good gloss holdout or even could fall off.

 

Will look at spraying a gray cover primer over this as @sterlclan recommended. Will use the vendor suggested...

And same for their hardeners and reducers...

Thanks!

 

Rustoleum rust metal primer is a difficult product. Alkylid enamels work OK over it, as long as the primer has "cured" a couple weeks. Rustoleum primer stays soft a really long time. Alkylid enamels, even with additives, generally start fading and chalking after a couple years, at least in my sunny climate.
You might have issues putting a Urethane over the rustoleum. I have had the primer "alligator" under the finish from the solvents in the topcoat attacking the primer. You may be able to use a 2K sealer between the rustoleum and Urethane topcoat and get away with it.
I often get by using generic reducers and catylists with paints like Kirker. When using higher end paints like Diamont or Martin Senour, I always use the recommended additives.
I think a "medium" speed reducer will work best for you in the 70s. It also depends on humidity, size of the object being painted, and if outdoors, whether you are in the sun or shade. There are a lot of variables. I have painted an outboad engine outdoors in the sun. 3 sides turned out perfect, but the forth side in direct sun looked like sandpaper. I needed a much slower reducer to allow the paint to flow out for that side.
Hope this helps some.
-Donny

 

Excellent info. Thanks.

 

also for reducers it depends on the amount of dust in the air. If you have some, you might want to go with a faster reducer to lessen the effect of dust falling on the paint. I agree with Keys5a about the rustoleum. It is also a PITA to shoot as it clogs the tip and air holes as you shoot it. Its great stuff if it gets sprayed on a month before you do anything with it. Its also a great generic coating for steel thats gong to hang out for a while sittin in the elements.

 

Dust? In farm country? In the spring? Everything is blooming...
this is likely what'll be...a couple of weeks at least between sprays.
Will let it harden - may be test it in an outta the way spot first.

Thanks for all your help.

 

Hi Dane -

Sorry to be a wet blanket, but I'm really skeptical of using the Rustoleum primer. My experience with it bears out what Donny writes - it takes a really long time to dry, and it never gets very hard. And the "rusty metal" part is really a stretch. I think that refers to the "fish oil" component in the primer which likely also gives the primer its soft, slow drying properties. Kirker has a whole page of primers that would be suitable for use under their or others automotive top coats. Primers The conventional wisdom says you have only two choices for direct application to steel: etch primer or epoxy.

JMO - if you are going to paint over a poorly prepared substrate (ie not bright steel), use Aluthane as a primer.

Regarding fading, the earth tones are going to fade less than the bright colors. If you are really short on funds, and you insist on the Rustoleum primer, I'd suggest you go with the Van Sickle or Valspar tractor paint plus hardener, and choose an earth color - white, black, tan, gray.

I may be full of it, but I kinda think you are on the wrong track if you are going to spend another few hundred bucks on materials to get the metallic green color you want. Especially if you pick a bright color and will leave the car out in the sun.

 

Tim,

Good point, no wet blanket here - been asking for a reason, I've been hearing it... little voices as well. Tinkering with hardener, it's come out ok, but about 10 days to dry to where a fingernail wouldn't ding it, not in a huge rush here, but I don't

Not a super issue on the cost of primer - it sort is a learning curve thing for me. I'll trip to the one of the local paint places today around lunch and see what I can root out, I think there's still a napa automotive paint store as well as some independents and others, then I'll compare with TCP Global and Kirker.

thanks!

 

Even though I have used the rustoleum primer products, Timgr is correct from my experience with the stuff. I have used it to roll on with a roller in large sheet steel. Its fine. Its not good under car paint though. I think its fine for axles and such but thats really it. I do have it under my rear panel, as this is recycled from another project, but has been on there for like 2 years and I sanded a lot of it off.

I have used 2k primers and they work fine, etch primers too, but I just used the epoxy stuff... If you have the correct reducer its pretty forgiving. I will use it again. Going forward I will just buy my stuff online and bypass the local paint store. I was at first happy with their attention, then I realized as usual that I am better off researching what i need then buying what I want at the price I want to pay online. Everything I have read about paint from these guys here is right on.

 

I have painted my CJ5 and my son's Gladiator with TCP Global's house brand with decent results. Their prices are very reasonable. In my experience Rustoleum does play well with other paints. A body man once told me that unless the paint has two parts, don't use it.

 

I've not had a chance to get to the local paint supply to get some urethane primer and supplies. Stalled out on spraying but working on other little things...

Did a fingernail check on the rustoleum I sprayed earlier this week: adding hardener to the rustoleum looks to have had a positive effect - I can't make a mark in places where I laid it in thicker than normal. Yesterday was warm (mid-70s) today is cool and it's rained on and off... but then it has been 3 days also... nothing happening there in a hurry.

 

best bet is keep the rusoleum to a minimum and allow ample time to cure, sand smoothish with a fine grit paper if its not gumming the sandpaper then 2k sealer and a 2k paint ,if still gummy put em in the sun and wait a few and try again,till not soft time of cure is key. the trouble is trapping solvent under the 2k paint.

 

You realize the thicker the paint is, the less resistant it is to chipping and scratching?

The 2K urethane or epoxy primers won't have any of this "I almost can't dent it with my fingernail" business. They will cure hard like a billiard ball. Even the moisture-cured urethanes (like POR-15 and Aluthane) dry to a very hard finish, without isocyanate hardner.

 

technically by adding the hardener it is now a 2k product albeit a soft one.

 

moving forward with urethane or epoxy primers when I get to the supply shop.

I've looked at SEP to Kirker primers, have a good idea on a gallon price including shipping (including activator/hardeners). I'm going in much better informed than I'd been 4 weeks ago... Thanks everyone.

roger on the 'gum the paper' process, worst case if it doesn't harden and I can't get paper to not gum... I'll strip it and go again with the 'right' stuff.

 

I have used rusty metal prime W/O hardener and basically if you follow the above direction, you should be fine. Let it get hot in the sun for at least a couple days before putting anything over it, then sand most of it off..

If you shoot the paint on very thick and its very hard the paint will tend to shatter especially on the edges. Paint is still soft for about 7 days even with the isocyanate hardener. If you force it, it bakes out some solvent and hastens the hardening process, other wise the paint is still soft for several days.