Dana 27 tie rod flip

Hi. I am new to this site and new to the Jeep world in general. Has anyone ever tried a Tie Rod flip on a Dana 27 before. Rock equipement offers a kit for what appears to be a Dana 30. I was wondering if this would work on a 27. Thanks for responding!

http://www.ok4wd.com/index.php/catalog/product/rock_equipment_tie_rod_flip_kit_w_ends/

 

Like Sparky said, yes they have been done. Grannyscj I think did the last one. Do a search for Tie Rod Flip, grannyscj's post had several replies, and links to sites with what is needed to complete a flip. This winter I will be doing a tie rod flip on my Dana 27. Good Luck, and welcome from the Left Coast.

 

Thanks Sparky! I just wanted to make sure this would work with a Dana 27.

 

I don't have any pics w/ me at work, I'll post some in the morning. This is an excellent mod. It gets the linkage up out of the way of the springs (my problem) for lock to lock steering as well as the obvious benefit of offroad clearance. It also brings the draglink more inline w/ the tie rod. My steering is fingertip easy and tight as can be. I caught myself doing 80 mph in Dallas a few times, never thought I'd do that in a jeep. I used a different kit than you found. www.goferitoffroad.com has a much simpler kit (start to completion <1 hr). Their's uses a steel insert w/ the taper already in it so there's no need for a reamer that you'll only use once. I believe its cheaper too.:v6:

 

Hi GrannySCJ ! so I purchased the Goferit bushings as well.. I understand you drill the knuckle hole out and insert the bushing and tac-weld in.. no problem... the reason I am doing this is because I am hitting the tie rod end on the leaf spring on the passenger side and do not get full steer.. So my question is, being a Dana 27 the knuckle has 1 hole unlike a 2 hole setup...so when you "flip" this would put the tie rod in front of the drag link which does not seem right.. does this or will this work? The drag link connects to the tie rod that conects both knuckles.. and the tie rod end has a slight angle in it that angles to the back of jeep when flipped would angle to the front of jeep.. another bushing?

 

CJ5sandiego,

This would be a standard Jeep CJ joint that is part of the tie rod that accepts the Drag link shown on top , from 71 and newer parts on an early Dana 27 axle.

 

Correct. this photo would be looking a from the bottom (ground) to the top correct? so when I "flip" to the top side of the single hole knuckle the drag link would then flip and be behind the tie rod.. (tie rod would be closer to the front of jeep).. does that make sense?haha.. this is frustrating being a rookie.. i have looked all over online and the forum but I cannot seem to find a "already done this issue" yet.. unless I am over analyzing this just does not seem like it would work.. I really want it too! haha

 

That setup came off of a 65 CJ with a manual Saginaw gear box mounted forward of the radiator...........if yours has a Saginaw manual or Power box mounted forward as I mentioned it will work just fine..........If you do a Dana-30 up front you can then use a 1 piece tie rod on the inside hole of two and the drag link goes to the outer hole on the Passenger side. If your going to flip it then you'll have to use 4 inserts............one at each knuckle , one at each end of the Drag Link............although the sector shaft end may be OK.

 

Thank you Tarry99. I did the Saginaw power steering conversion with the box mounted in right behind my bumper in front of the grill. The PO had a Saginaw assist and im guessing he had to buy a new drag link and tie rod?? I have a 1 hole knuckle, Dana27. I bought 2 insert bushings from Goferit. Here are a couple of photos. No dana 30 swap for now... My concern is the flip with what i have, 1 hole knuckle, the drag link attaches to the tie rod right before it connects to the knuckle, and the drag link then being behind the tie rod just seems like it would be real funky for a lack of better words..and the tie rod end that connects to the knuckle has a slight angle towards the front of jeep that would the be the opposite when flipped.. I guess one way would be to just drill the holes as scheduled, insert bushings and see what it looks like??? It seems like the Tie rod and drag link would then be hitting or interfering with each other and throw off the angles?? but what do I know hahah.. thank you for your input I do appreciate it!here are a few photos of what I am looking at..and am wondering if anyone else had this same thought or predicament...
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Before doing anything check the caster at the front knuckle. If less than 5 degrees I would consider adding tapered steel shims to increase caster. This will do two things, cause the Jeep to track straighter with less wander, and rotate the axle in such a way the tie rods and ends will move away from the leaf springs possibly giving you the clearance needed.
I recommend not going more than 7 degrees positive caster though.

 

I was thinking that as well haha.. but somebody had mentioned that would not fix my issue.. excuse me for my ignorance and I have read this before on here but to be sure.. "positive castor" would be the axle/pumpkin rotated 3-7 degrees forward towards the front of the jeep or tilted backwards towards the back of the jeep?(I can get the shims close to the shop in different degrees 1,2,4 etc) All we added was the 2.5" skyjacker lift and about 2" longer shackles.. thank you for the advice Nickmil

 

Caster is the angle of the knuckle angled forward or back. Back is positive and forward is negative. Perfectly vertical is 0 degrees. Basically put an angle finder on the upper knuckle bolts (that hold the trunnion bearing caps on) and measure the angle. It will be rough and crude but will give you a pretty good idea. You want the knuckle tilted toward the rear of the Jeep between 5 and 7 degrees. This is positive caster and is generally ideal for an early Jeep.
The longer front shackles will tilt the knuckles forward toward negative and the lift can do the same. I bet this is why you are having issues.

 

With that said then it is time to break out the angle finder! haha.. I appreciate the help and hope that this is the fix I am looking for. I noticed you also have a Saginaw 4 speed transmission.. For some reason I cant seem to find to much information on these?? any reason why? .. this is what the PO had so I am just going with it for now.. well once she hits the trail.. I will post with an answer tomorrow. thank you again

 

Being this build will be almost all for rock crawling and off road use we wanted to get a bit more articulation which we did accomplish, she has quite a bit of flex especially with the curry johny joints in the rear.. I put the 2.5" skyjacker leafs on for the lift and read that adding a slighltley longer shackle than stock can work out really good.. but as you said now that we made the shackles 2" longer in the front than stock we created this issue. Initially I made front and rear mock up shackles with holes every inch for adjust ability and then came up with our stance once we had full weight in the vehicle, then made the shackles.. I am installing the caster shims today and hopefully that will get our geometry back in order.. so we are hoping this works but if not then maybe we will have to make another set of shackles closer to stock .. tbd

 

Not a popular swap now but was back in the day. I did mine about 1988-1989 when the 231 went in. Most had pretty bad first gear ratio's for a Jeep but there were some wide ratio versions that were quite a bit lower than the T-90 (3.5-1 or so). This is what I have in my Jeep. The other downside is getting to be availability of parts, people doing restorations on cars that used these transmissions, and the side shift linkage.

 

Goodmorning Nickmil! Well I am back to asking questions hope you dont mind.. so deathwobble, I am pretty sure I have read every post on this site and every other jeep site in regards to death wobble. I remade the shackles that are now only 3/4" longer than stock and a bit about double that in the back, all new bushings (put the original press in bushings with the outer and inner metal sleeves), no wheel play or movement checking for bad bearings, alignment and correct toe in, nut and bolted with locktight, new Tom Woods drive shaft, re-balanced the 33" tires, 6 degree caster shims.. and still had the wobble.. I ordered new kingpin bearings and races and shims, so happens a guy comes to the shop who is the owner of a spring shop in town, first thing he says is, well the first thing I would do is take off the "drop pitman arm" and put a regular flat pitman arm on, or for now just flip the nut and bolt on top of pitman arm.. basically saying I was too parralel with the drag link and tie rod.. so we did which added some angle to from the pitman arm to tierod end..and no more deathwobble... does this make sense to you?

 

Hmm. That does not make any sense to me. Typically you want the drag link as parallel to the tie rod as possible as you want them to move in the same plane to minimize bump steer. Bump steer happens most commonly when the drag link and tie rod are at different angles so as one tire/end of axle goes up the wheels are forced to turn if the steering wheel is held straight ahead. This is because of the arc the drag link has to travel in effect changes the distance from the knuckle to the pitman arm. When the drag link and tie rod (or on some vehicles the track bar) are on the same plane that arc travel is at it's minimum so the distance change is at its minimum. Maybe a pic of where you are at now would help.

 

CJ5sandiego,
Have you come up with any ideas for your drag link to tie rod connection? I was thinking that maybe I could get a third insert, drill out the tie rod weld it in, and then straighten it out at the same time. I believe that it is a forged unit, so welding shouldn't be an issue. We heat and bend our forged race car pitman and idler arms on a regular basis to correct bump steer. Any ideas?