CJ-5 vs. M38A1, how to distinguish (was Jeep)

Suggest the mods split this into its own thread. Not right to append it to a thread from 2007.

It's a '74 or '75 tub with a '76 or newer windshield. The front clip is M38A1 to my eye. The frame is '71 or older, since the M38A1 front clip won't fit on a '72 or newer frame. I'd guess it's mostly M38A1 with a newer tub.

 

Howard, did they stamp the frame on '54 M38A1's? That would be a nice way to confirm. Also, the frame is boxed-in near the front axel. Is that typical of M38A1? I think I read that somewhere.

I don't see a plate on the center of the cross member, but I see see what looks like the support for the passenger-side tri-pod leg located above the frame just behind the cross member that I'd expect to see the center-plate for the machine gun. See pictures.

Also, do you know what the level located under the driver seat is for? Looks like it was venting or a selectable release valve for the gas tank?

 

Not a factory item.

 

A1 possibly?

 

Yes, M38A1. The M38 frame will be too short for that tub.

The M38A1 frame has a machine gun mount under the rear bed. Easily found picture with a web search -


in this thread: Willys M Jeeps Forums-viewtopic-Which gun mount for a 1919A4
more here - Willys M Jeeps Forums-viewtopic-were all the M38A1 frames

The M38A1 frame also has other distinctive construction and boxing that I do not know the details of. Certainly the mil collectors will, and I believe it has been covered here if you search - site:earlycj5.com m38a1 frame - Bing - use your favorite search engine

 

You guys are great! I definitely have an M38A1. The central machine gun mount was removed...I feel grind marks...likely removed when they replaced the tub w/ a 70's Cj5. But the left and right mounts are still there just as shown in the picture above.

Is there a forum I should post in in order to get help dating the A1 based on some features in the frame or front end?

Thanks again!

 

NP.

Aside from the forum I linked above (which I was not aware of), there is the G: G503 Military Vehicle Message Forums - Index page The G has been around a long time.

I wonder how much enthusiasm the mil forums will have for your FrankenJeep. With the tub gone, most of the identifying marks are too. Current tub is clearly (to me) '74-75 in origin. The new tub was clearly a repair of an existing Jeep. What more does the CHP/DMV want from you?

 

Yes, A1 of course.

 

Regarding CHP, I just want to steer them towards a specific year, so they don't get to choose for me. New info:

- Dana 25 front axle for sure, which puts it '52-'60
- front bumper/frame features that are consistent with early A1 years...per picture attached.

So it's a '52-'60 A1. I'll message the G503 forum. Thanks guys.

 

Zilche, zippo, nada. Just the bill of sale from the previous owner that just drove it around his farm. As long as I can prove what year it is, the CHP and DMV can assign a new VIN that would assign it to that year/make/model...for a fee of course. So, I'm doing this research in order to "make my case". And I'm emailing the CHP officer a summary of my findings so he's well versed when I come for inspection. He's basically the judge, and makes the determination.

 

Registered mine as 1951 - turn signals not required in my state until 1952.

OEM it would have had build and delivery dates on brass plates, on the dash and behind the passenger seat.

 

"yeah, i've got a '51 M38A1" hopefully they aren't jeep smart or a member here...

 

M38A1 Restoration Site

 

You nailed it sir! Based on the M38A1.COM - Model Differences between years and variants. section, I almost certainly have a '52-'53 M38A1, based on the presence of a 45 degree seam on the front and the folding grill. So it's considered a "Generation 1" A1. Terrific!

Looks like turn signals are needed as of '59 in CA...but I'm going to include them anyways. It's already a Mutt...

Thanks.

 

M151?

 

No, mutts were a different vehicle entirely.

M151 ¼-ton 4×4 utility truck