Upgraded Steering With A Pto Winch

Discussion in 'Flat Fender Tech' started by garage gnome, Oct 14, 2017.

  1. Oct 14, 2017
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher Sponsor

    Western MA
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    I've been thinking about upgrading the steering on my jeep. Only problem is, I have a PTO winch that takes the area in front of the grille. So I was thinking that I could put a manual steering box on the other side of the round cross member inside the frame rail and have the pitman arm pointed towards the front. The will obviously make it steer backwards, but I see summit racing has reverse rotation ones. This should work, correct?

    https://www.summitracing.com/search...3&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending
     
  2. Oct 14, 2017
    Howard Eisenhauer

    Howard Eisenhauer Super Moderator Staff Member Sponsor

    Tantallon, Nova...
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    Herm sells a setup for what you describe, I believe it uses a Ford box.
     
  3. Oct 14, 2017
    Rich M.

    Rich M. Member

    Maryland
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    I faced that as well. If you want a clean look Herm's or the astro van swap are your options. I got around the same dilemma but it entails either body lift or grill tunneling
    Non Saginaw PS Solution
     
  4. Oct 14, 2017
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Nate, how many inches clearance on the left side between the frame & winch? You may be able to use what I did-a C3 Corvette box.

    1969l-1982 Corvette Steering Gear Box Remanufactured

    The "neck" on those allows the pitman to travel below the frame rail while the body sits directly on top of the rail. However, I'm not sure I would recommend using those in manual mode-at least not without a robust steering stabilizer. They can be very hard on thumbs or any other digits that happen to be in the wrong position on the steering wheel. The Vett application used a separate control valve on the end of the drag link to feed a remote hydraulic cylinder for PS (which is still what I have on my B) but you can also get an aftermarket integral power box now. Corvette pieces can be a little expensive but on the plus side, extremely well supported in the aftermarket.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Oct 14, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

    Post Falls, ID
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    I did a Ford bronco/f150 box swap on a cj5 frame last year. I'm not sure how much clearance you would have without a lift, but with a 4" lift, a 4" dropped pitman arm and a tie rod flip, this ended up working out perfectly. The owner is still assembling parts, but the steering is all but done and angles and clearances look good.
    Front Frame Rail Replacement And Crossmember Repair... And Ford Steering Box Install
     
  6. Oct 14, 2017
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher Sponsor

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    I have 3” between the winch and the winch mount.
     
  7. Oct 14, 2017
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power Sponsor

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    The depth, or maximum thickness of the C3 box sector nose from the mounting surface is right at 2.125".
    [​IMG]

    And there is approximately 6" from the bottom of the worm housing to the top of the pitman arm.
    [​IMG]

    The C3 box is about 3.75 turns lock to lock. I used the one above in manual mode for several years. It works that way but power is oh so much better and takes almost all the loading off the mounting and box internals with the separate hydraulic assist cylinder/control valve. The PS also eliminated any kick back and I have never needed a steering stabilizer since going PS. The GM assist cylinder is adequate for at least up to 33's but you could use any aftermarket cylinder that fit your needs. I went with a 2" dia, axle mounted PSC unit for my new D44 axle. I'm also using a block mounted Sweet PS pump with this.
     
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  8. Oct 15, 2017
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher Sponsor

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    John, how did you run the steering shaft? Does it go through the inner fender?

    I'm running the stock L head and a D30 up front. The hydro assist does sound interesting, but I don't have room enough under the hood for a power steering pump. I have a york 210 compressor being run off the engine unless there is an electric ps pump I could use.
     
  9. Oct 15, 2017
    duffer

    duffer Rodent Power Sponsor

    Bozeman, MT
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    Steering shaft is pretty much centered directly above the frame rail with a direct shot to the bottom of the steering column. Using Flaming River U-joints on both ends. Depending on your mounting, you may need to put a small notch in the grill. Shaft is inside the inner fender.
     
  10. Oct 16, 2017
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member Sponsor

    Falcon, CO
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    Another option to think about is a Scout Box - If memory serves, they sit on the outside of the frame rail and it's just a matter of routing the steering shaft.
     
  11. Oct 16, 2017
    GeoffreyL

    GeoffreyL Active Member

    moorestown, nj
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    You can fit both! at least in a cj5, I have an engine I bought out of california andhad shipped here because it had both mounted on it and I wanted to see it in person. I'll see if I can dig up pics if you want. I want to use it all to build an f-head jeep with every cool upgrade that was available or could have been done in the 60's and 70's. sort of a stock to the period jeep.
     
  12. Oct 16, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

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    Yup, very similar to the Ford bronco box, but the scout boxes are getting really hard to come by, and they have a ridiculously long pitman arm that makes for some scary steering if you don't have an equally ridiculously long knuckle arm (i.e., from a scout). Here's the bronco box on a CJ frame.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    IMO, if I had to choose between an air compressor and a power steering pump, I'd choose the steering. You can always get an electric compressor.
     
  13. Oct 16, 2017
    45es

    45es Sponsor Sponsor

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    If a person was going to use a Scout box, is there something peculiar about the box that prevents the use of a shorter in length aftermarket pitman arm?
     
  14. Oct 16, 2017
    ITLKSEZ

    ITLKSEZ Volvophilic

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    That's a good question. I looked into it before and never found a conclusive answer. I think they are made by Saginaw, but the shaft might be wider. Whether or not you could swap in a pitman arm from another application... I'm curious to know.
     
  15. Oct 16, 2017
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher Sponsor

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    I was really hoping to not cut up the body. I like the stock appearance my jeep has.
     
  16. Oct 17, 2017
    fhoehle

    fhoehle Sponsor Sponsor

    Eynon, PA
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    There are aftermarket drop pitman arms for Scout steering boxes. I am 95% sure they are same spline as a Jeep pitman arm, and the one I bought was actually too short which leads me to believe it is probably generically fit for a CJ, but also fits Scout boxes as well.
     
  17. Oct 18, 2017
    Warloch

    Warloch Did you say Flattie??? Staff Member Sponsor

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    Yes - we swapped pitman arms from standard Saginaw on to them when I worked with them years ago - that much I do remember.
     
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  18. Oct 25, 2017
    1957Willys

    1957Willys Member

    Birmingham, Alabama
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    Why not a M38A1 steering box or a Hudson Hornet steering box. Both should be direct bolt in.
     
  19. Oct 25, 2017
    garage gnome

    garage gnome Rust polisher Sponsor

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    Didn't think of that. I could also put taper bearings in the bell crank and remove the slop.
     

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